The following is a condensed version of messages that were in
PETPRO, Section 14, Thiel Aqua Tech. It describes step by step how
to set up a Reef Tank.
This is Part 1.
Jola ,
Well since you have asked, let's try and do it indeed. I will give
you a series of steps to carry out, from here via Petpro, and then
you can carry them out. When you have all the steps completed, just
let me know and I will send you a series of next steps to perform.
The type of tank we will attempt to set up long distance so to
speak, is a Berlin Method tank. We will not make it a Jaubert at
this time.
This should be a real interesting project: can two hobbyists set up
a successful tank this way with 1400 or so miles separating them and
electronic mail to go through the steps and maybe a phone call once
in a while to resolve urgent matters that need an immediate answer.
I have never done this before and I doubt anyone else has either.
Should be really some experience we are going to have. Of course you
are going to be performing most of the work. I hope that you don't
mind and realized this when you suggested this never-done-before set
up.
Albert Las Cruces
Albert:
This is fabulous!!! Lets do it!<G>
Am going to save all messages on this project in another file.
This will be the ultimate experiment. I'm sure this has never been
done before.
Think of it, you know for sure everybody is going to keep up with
this!
You can use the information in any manner that you want to, whether
it is a library file, Newsletter, book, it doesn't matter to me. I
am honored to do this. Again, how many hobbyists would love this
opportunity.
Just think, taking an average hobbyist, with very limited and basic
knowledge and experience, and teaching them exactly what to do to
have a "Show Reef", not just a reef tank. Albert, this will
indeed make a great book. Every beginner will benefit from this.
Now, if you print something up , wherever you print it, I know you
don't like to mention product names, such as your own, but, I feel
like you should tell exactly what products are being used, even if
they are your own. There are just so many differences in products.
People do need to understand that they might not get the same
results if they use Instant Ocean for instance. What do you think?
The salt has not come yet , but I'm sure I'll need a lot more than
50 gallons for this project.
Also, it will take me several days to get a lot of water RO'ed,
assuming that you want me to use RO water for everything. If not
let me know if you want me to use tap water for the rock washing,
etc.
Test kits that I have are : Calcium, Phosphate, (both SeaChem),
Nitrite, Nitrate, Ammo, Alkalinity, and of course the pH meter and
specific gravity (SG) ,although not to sure about the accuracy of
the SG . Its a SeaTest with the arm and you know how I have griped
about the ones I have that all test different.
As far as the work goes, well you know me!
Are you sure you want to use a 55 gal? Again, this is terrific
and I'm honored to be a part!!! BTW, I do wish , though that in
your writings about this, if you do, you would use my name. This
would fill me with pride!!!!
Jola
Jola,
Will you please send me a list of exactly what is in the tank right
now (everything). I also need to know how much live rock you have in
there now. So here we go Jola.
Albert
Albert,
Here's the listing of everything that is presently in the tank:
1 Blue Damsel about 2" long, very healthy.
1 Leather Coral about 13" in diameter if fully expanded. Base is about
5" long.
1 - 4" Oval rock with Green Polyps , these are the ones that look like
translucent green sticks with green feather dusters on the ends. They
are reproducing.
1 - 4" diameter rock with 22 Green Stripe Mushrooms, doing well and
reproducing, although, they seem to "trumpet" during the day.
1 Elegance Coral
1 Small Devil's Hand Coral
1 - 5 " Oval rock covered in "Palm Tree" Polyps, these are the kind that
are brownish with bright green dots in the middle.
1 - 6" Oval rock covered with bright green Star Polyps.
1 - 1 lb. rock with a clam and covered with Acordia Mushrooms
1 - 2 lb. rock covered with Coraline Algae and Acordia Mushrooms
5 Tiny Hermit Crabs, their legs are purple with a single red
stripe on each leg
14 (Guessing) Turbo Snails
5 Clusters , varying in size, of Regular Green Polyps
ROCK:
About 25 - 30 lbs of base rock, this was once LR, real porous,
the kind that once had lots of Xmas Tree worms. This was cleaned
and bleached well before using. Over time, is developing Coraline
Algae growth as well as other inhabitants.
About 6 lbs. of what is called here "Indo Rock" very heavy. The
largest one of these has Turtle Grass on it.
About 20 -25 lbs. of what is called here "Worm Rock" very porous
and light for the size of the rock in comparison to the "Indo Rock".
And of course the rocks mentioned above with the Acordia Mushrooms
and other types of Polyps. Total weight in these I would guess at
about 6 lbs..
Of course, the sick Red Open Brain is in there , also.
Current substrate is 3 lbs. of Live Sand mixed with 1 lb. of crushed
Oyster Shell. Just enough to cover the bottom of the glass and was
added just around the rock that is on the bottom of the glass.
Think that covers it all !
Jola
========================================================= Project
Jo-bert (The Reef by Jola and Albert)
Step 1 April 27, 1995
--------------------------------------------
1. Total tank, rock and coral cleaning
--------------------------------------------
a)Take all the rock out and place it on a large plastic tarp. You
can keep it moist by spraying it with saltwater from time to time
if necessary.
b) Leave the fish in the tank
c) Take the corals out and place them in salt water from the tank being
careful not to put one on top of the other or too close to one
another as they could get damaged in the process
d) Make sure the temp in the vat or trays where the corals go does not
drop. Check the temp. from time to time. Keep the temp the same as
the one now in the tank or a degree or two more
e) Now clean the tank out, leave the water but get all the dirty
stuff out so we have no dirt or detritus on the bottom anymore.
This is very important as we want to start out with as clean a tank
as we possibly can.
f) You will loose quite a bit of water as you clean the tank out. This
is normal and nothing to worry about.
g) From time to time look at the rock and see if anything is crawling
out of it, e.g. bristle worms or mantis shrimp or snails and crabs.
If anything does and you are not sure call me to let me know what it
is so we can decide what to do with it.
h) If the rock gets dry spray it with saltwater. Not much, just enough
to keep it moist.
i) After the tank is clean at the bottom, the water may be cloudy
because you have been moving rock etc. ... around. We will not worry
about this for now.
j) It would be a good idea to prepare enough salt water a day in
advance. Remember also that we are going to need water to top off
the tank so you will need to prepare quite a bit of saltwater to
do all this.
k) You now need two large buckets filled with salt water that is of the
same parameters (temp, pH and s.g. wise) as in the tank.
I) Take the pieces of coral and clean them one by one by gently swishing
them around in bucket 1 and then rinsing them in bucket two. When
done place the coral back in the containers you have them in. Clean
all of them in the same manner. You may have to change the water in
both buckets a few times depending on how dirty it gets.
m) None of the coral's rock or base should have any micros on them
If there is, they needed to be removed in one of the
above sub-steps
n) Now go through the same process with the rock as you did with the
corals. When the rock is cleaned though again by swishing it around
and maybe using a brush on it to really clean it off, place it back
in on the tarp. Check the rock for worms etc.. and remove them if
you see any.
None of the rocks should have any micro-algae growth on them.
o) When all the rock is clean and all the corals too, we are ready to
start placing everything back in the tank
p) Build up the base by using the live rock and placing it in such a
way that the base is sturdy and does not look like it is going to
fall apart when you touch the pieces. Touch some pieces and try to
move them. They should not move much and they should certainly give
you a sense that they are well in place. If more rock was needed (we
do not know that yet) that rock becomes part of this and the above
cleaning processes. When all the rock is in the tank start placing
the corals back in the tank.
q) When the rock and the corals are back in the tank, water will be
missing because of the amount lost while cleaning the bottom of the
tank. Add the required amount of water to bring the tank back to
where the level should be. All water added needs to be of the same
ph, temp and s.g. as the water already in the tank.
r) Let the tank run for about two hours while placing a mechanical
filtration medium somewhere to clean up the water somewhat. You can
use a wad of filter floss. After this time has gone by remove the
wad and throw it away. Place a new one in the same place for an hour
or two. Then remove it and throw it away.
The water should now be fairly clear.
s) Switch the skimmer on watch it as it may foam real hard because of
all the changes in the water chemistry.
t) Check the pH, s.g., temp, KH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate
calcium level and dissolved oxygen. Make a note and please post them
to me in in Petpro.
u) No other filtration is necessary. Only the skimmer. I suppose you are
going to use the Biozone hang-on you have, right?
v) Give me the details of the lights you now have and plan to put over
the tank and let's review them. For the time being run the lights
you were running before and run them for 9 hours only. The best
would be to have them on a timer of course.
Albert
Jola,
Well that is it for step one. I know this is a lot of work Jola, so
give it some good thought.
Good luck and energy <G>
Albert
Albert,
Just an observation type of question here.
When determining the size of a tank, one thing that has me puzzled
and wondering about -for sure- going with the 55.
Now, you have seen beautiful reefs in -all-sizes of tanks. Small,
med, and large. What I'm wondering about it is things growing. I
mean, you have say a 20 gallon reef, you put in a small Leather
Coral, it grows, not long until the leather under good conditions
will over power the tank.
For example, my leather is already as wide as the 55 if it were to
open completely. It is a very beautiful thing and is doing great!
But, if you were trying to complete a miniature and balanced reef,
stuff would outgrow the miniature effect.
Does what I'm saying make sense? I mean this would happen , it
seems, no matter what size the tank. Unless of course you used
something like a 200 + gallon tank. You see what I'm trying to say
here, I'm sure people don't replace their Corals when this happens,
do they?
Jola
Jola,
A 55 is just great for a reef. It allows for plenty of corals even
if they grow. Of course larger tanks would allow for more animals
but the cost of setting up and especially maintaining such a tank
would go up dramatically.
I think you will find that a 55 can hold a "lot". As we go along and
start putting corals in you will be surprised at what can go in
there.
Since your leather is already that big, we will make it split once
we get a little further so you end up with two smaller ones. Don't
ask yet what to do, we will get to that soon enough. Just know that
fitting corals in a tank is a matter of how you place them and which
ones go next to which ones, more so than the size of the tank.
Expense is a major factor too that cannot be overlooked!
Hope this explains it. Albert
Albert,
Definitely a great explanation. A 55 gallon would be in the reach of
a lot of folks, as it is with me. It is also a size that a lot of people could
find room for.
Great, going with the 55!
Jola
Albert
Need to know for sure about the substrate. Since Nashville is the
only place that I can get any kind of material for this, and I'll be
starting Step 1 Sunday, if you have any preference as to what I will
need for this, I need to know. There is only going to be about, maybe 4
cups of the LS mixed with the crushed oyster shell when it is removed
from the tank. I do not really like this substrate anymore. Much prefer sand .
Like in your photos. Something much finer than the crushed oyster shell.
It is about 1/4" in size.
Jola
If you do not like the substrate you have now anymore by all means get
rid of it. - if you are going to replace it we need to agree on one thing
first:
- do you want to set up a Live Sand system
- or do you want to set up a Berlin method system
- or do you want a combination
- I would personally opt for the latter one. The last one. That would
entail setting up a tank with plenty of live rock and some sand on the
bottom. - is that what you want to do?
We can go either way, with sand or without. Since we are redoing
the whole set up though my recommendation would be to go with the live
rock and fine sand on the bottom.
Albert
Albert,
The system that I would choose , would be the best one. Since I don't
know the best one, You will have to weight the pros and cons of all
the systems, and tell me which is the best.
You indicated the combination system . Why? I'm sure that this will
look great, but, want to know why you prefer this?
Jola
Jola
Right now to maximize filtration and recycling of nutrients in the system
the combination method offers the most benefits.
Albert
Albert,
Today I was speaking to an engineer about filtration methods. He had a
suggestion for a possible media for use in some applications. He
suggested Coke as it is used widely in sewage/water treatment due to its
porous nature. I asked about chemical leakage into the water and he said
it was basically inert. I just wonder if this would make a good bottom
layer for a plenum or as base for rock in larger chunks.
What do you think,
Dave & Shani
David ,
The idea of the live sand method is to use calcium carbonate based
materials to increase the pH and KH stability of the system. Using
anything else also goes against the "naturalness" of the system.
Coke is possibly inert and does have a large internal surface area. The
inertness is of no use in a Live Sand Method system. We want the material
used to react and dissolve and keep the nutrient balance in the system
stable. Inert materials would not do so.
Also in the LS method we are NOT using the traditional biological filter
that this porous Coke would provide. That filtration is taken care of by
the rock itself. The sand layer serves the other purpose: water chemistry
ionic balance and stability.
Sound more to me like this is a material that could be used in a TF if
you wanted to get an inexpensive biological filtration medium.
Yes that is indeed the explanation. The media used should be calcite or
preferably aragonite. These media do maintain the stability you would be
looking for.
The sand layer is an important aspect of the whole setup. It needs to be
real fine.
If you have followed the threads in AFF you may have seen quite a few
messages on the subject.
Albert
Albert,
You mentioned something in a previous message about Plenium.
Jola
Jola,
No plenum at this time.
Albert
Albert,
You mentioned in Step 1 , the only filter on the system will be the
Biozone Skimmer, what about mechanical (after the clean up of course)
and chemical filterants?
Jola
Jola,
We will NOT be using mechanical and or chemical filtration on this
system.
Since this is BM or mixed BM/LS we do not need it right now. We can
always decide later whether we need to add anything depending on how the
water quality develops.
The more rock in the tank the less of this type of filtration will be
necessary IME.
This entails having about 2 pounds of live rock per gallon in the tank
and a layer of live sand that is about 2 or so inches thick. We will
build the layer up slowly in thickness as I like to go the slow way,
some, however, put the whole lot in at once.
This seems to work better for me anyway. Does not mean though that
the other way is not good, just that I like the slower way better.
As we put more live rock in there though the likelihood is we will not
need to use it at all or for a very short period of time only.
I cannot tell right now what it will be at this time. Monitoring the tank
conditions will be the determining factor. That will depend on how good
the rock is that we put in the tank.
We want really porous rock (lightweight type rock) that has lots of space
for growth of many types of bacteria and other life forms. The more
filtration we can get "inside" that rock the better off the tank will run
and the less problems there will be to deal with. Ideally there will be
none!
We will not use chemical compounds unless really necessary. We are
trying to keep all filtration as natural as we can.
Albert
Albert,
10 gallon tank okay for a sump?
Jola
Jola
Yes 10 gallon tank OK for sump. Is that where you are going to put the
skimmer? or are you placing it on the tank?
If you place it on the sump that is OK too but we will loose some
pressure from the RIO as the hose to the venturi will be longer.
Either way, let me know where you intend to place it. You can choose, in
the long run it is not going to make that much of a difference and I hear
through the grapevine that stronger power heads may soon come on the
market. To get stronger skimming we would then just replace the PH with a
more powerful one.
Whatever tubing you were using on the skimmer should be thrown out. We
will use new tubing.
Albert
Albert,
Will get more tubing for the skimmer tomorrow in the city.
Jola
Jola,
Re tubing. You should get enough to ensure that there are no kinks in the
tubing. As you will have cleaned the skimmer it will take a few hours to a day or
so before it starts foaming properly again.
Albert
Albert,
I will place the skimmer anywhere that it will be the best. You just
tell me.
Actually, by putting the skimmer on the back of the tank, this would
eliminate the need for the sump, unless, I still need it for the drip
of KW.
Let Me know. Jola
Jola,
You will drip KW in the sump to ensure pH and KH stability.
Dripping KW is a must. If you do not mind putting the drip system above
the tank we can indeed eliminate the need for a sump.
Can you put the bottle with KW on some shelf a little higher than the
tank? If so make sure it does not bother you from an aesthetic point of
view.
You could build some kind of cover in front of it (by you I mean B.)
which would hide it from view.
Let me know. Either way is Ok but if we want to simplify then having it
above the tank would really be the easiest and simplest by far.
And as you so rightfully say then we would NOT need a sump (another
simplification).
Get back to me on this will you. Thanks,
Albert
Albert,
But...... By having a sump, you can put the heater there, the
skimmer there, the pump to run the skimmer, and the KW drip there. All
in one place, out of the tank and out of sight just by having a small
clear plastic over flow box and a return line back to the tank. You
don't have to try and come up with a way to try and hide this or that so
the visual affect is good.
In the long haul, you would probably run into a lot less hassle by
just going on with the sump and not worrying about how to hide all that
stuff and, it keeps a lot of necessary stuff out of the tank itself. IMO.
Jola
Jola ,
Yes indeed that is correct. If you have a sump there is no need for
shelves above the tank to hide the items you mention. This is a matter
of personal preference and really has little to do with how the system
works.
Since you obviously prefer that, and I fully agree with the points you
make, we will work with a sump and use a small aquarium to do so and a
pump and overflow to bring the water to the sump and then back to the
tank.
Questions : 1. what type of overflow/surface skimmer do you have?
2. what type of pump do you have to bring the water back to
the aquarium from the sump?
Albert
Albert,
The overflow / surface skimmer ; I don't know the brand or type ,
will describe:
The skimmer box is 5" long and 3" wide , acrylic, with teeth around 3
sides. Then the "U" shaped piece that hooks over the tank, after it is
hooked to the skimmer box, it has a suction tube in the top of it to
make a siphon with. Then the prefilter box that hangs on the back of the
tank is 3" wide, 6" long, and 7" tall, it has one PVC pipe coming out
of the bottom of it that is 4" long. 3" of the PVC is inside the
prefilter box, with 1" coming out of the bottom.
Pumps on hand to run this are Penguin 1140 or RIO 2100.
Jola
Jola,
Understood on the sump and overflow. No problem with that.
The pumps you have to return water to the tank may not be strong enough
though. They will not push the height they have to go up.
You can try the RIO and get back to me and tell me how much water it
pushes back in one minute. That should give us a good idea if it is
sufficient or not.
Let me know. Wish I was there but 1400 miles is a little far to make
quick trip over. <G>
Albert
Jola,
As part of Step 1 we agreed (and this is for the record) that we would
use a sump on the 55 that you worked so hard on today.
This sump will be used for hanging the skimmer on and also for the
dosing of Kalkwasser (very very important).
The skimmer (a Biozone unit) will be operated by a RIO 2100.
The water will be returned to the tank using a RIO 2100 as well. You
will let me know the approximate flow so we can decide together whether
this is enough.
You should install the skimmer in the next day or so, and start the KW
drip system as soon as you can.
If you do not have the chemicals to do so please let me know so I can send
them to you immediately.
Right now I suggest you do so by using a bottle, filled with RO water
and Calcium hydroxide.
Add 6 tsp. of C.H. to one gallon of water. Shake well and then create a
siphon by using an airline hose and let the water run into the sump.
To get a drip effect, tie a knot at the end of the hose and tighten
little by little until the amount you add is equal to the daily
evaporation rate.
At this point you may not know how much that is so you will need to
start measuring how much water the tank looses per day. ----
I will post another message with a suggested method of doing so ----
Should you have any questions regarding the above, Jola, let me know.
When the tank is full and the amount of water in the sump is at the
level you want to keep it at, make a pencil mark or use a crayon to
indicate where that level is. Note the time of day you do this.
24 hours later check the sump (as that is where the evaporation will be
visible in your case) and you will find that water IS missing.
Now slowly add RO water to the aquarium keeping track of how much you
add. Keep doing so until the water in the sump is back to the line.
Note the total amount added. That is our daily evaporation rate.
Note that as the time of year changes the evaporation may change too.
Humidity and outside temperature will affect it.
It pays to check from time to time to make sure it has not change.
Once you know the evaporation rate you will have to adjust the drip rate
of the K.W. so it matches the evaporation rate. You can do this by
loosening the knot or tightening it to change the number drops going
into the system.
The container used to hold the KW can be any kind of plastic one,
including large soft drink bottles. Remember that the smaller the bottle
the more frequently you will have to refill it. Also, make sure the
airline tubing that acts as the dispensing hose should be near the
bottom of the bottle (container).
Albert
Albert,
As a suggestion I offer the following;
Before I set up a dosing system, I used airline tubing and a gaited air
valve. The air valve allows a more precise adjustment of the drip rate.
The valve will allow finer control over the knot method. Cheap but
effective.
Note: The valve will need to be cleaned of calcium every week or so.
Best Wishes
Michael J. Kravit
Michael,
Yes that would work indeed. Cleaning the valve I guess is somewhat
similar to making sure the siphon keeps running on the drip system.
Where did you get the valve and how much did you pay for it. This may
indeed be of interest to others following these threads on how to set up
the system.
The valves can be bought from US Plastics. 419-228-2242.
It is actually a Nalgene Needle Valve. It is designed for
non-pressurized applications. Works great for drip method. Fine
adjustment. Part # 17235 1/8" $16.44.
Thank you for your input and feel free to add more whenever you deem fit
to do so. The more input we get the better we are.
Albert
Albert,
"Check " on all pertaining to the evaporation and sump. The KW that
I have is made by Kent Marine. But it doesn't matter. I'm almost out.
To mix at 6 tsp. per gallon, will need some ASAP.
I thought that I had plenty more, wrong stuff. I thought that I had
a container with KW in it , when actually I was looking at a container
with something else.
Well, I'm out now, as I mentioned , I thought that I had plenty, I
was seeing the wrong container.
What I did to overcome this "crisis" was to call the local pharmacy
and order 14 oz. of pure Calcium Hydroxide. This -is - KW mix, right? I
will have it tomorrow.
This really is a mistake on my part, I usually am -very- much a
stickler for reading labels on stuff very closely. I've just been in
such a tizzy lately! I would be better off to calm down as the
"tizzyness" is causing me to make mistakes! <G>
You be sure and let me know about the use of the "Emergency " KW .
Additives that I have on hand for a reef are: LGP, Pro-Grow, Iodine,
& Pure Calcium . KW, like I told you in previous message, I'm out of! Is this
all that is needed for the reef?
Was looking through all the different products that you have. There
are many on your list that I don't have, the information in the catalog,
say for "Heavy loaded tanks".
Well, depending on the rest of Jo-Bert, you may need to think about
the additives.
Jola
Albert,
I have 1 gallon of LGP , concentrate that I mixed in 8 oz. portions,
still have lots of that.
I also have about 3 ozs. of Iodine, and about 4 ozs. of Pro-Grow.
As I mentioned, I am out of the KW, but I will have pure pharmacy form
of Calcium Hydroxide tomorrow.
Jola
Jola,
Yes that is highly advisable as we need to get that calcium level up and
need to stabilize the KH and the pH.
Check that evaporation out though. You don't want the tank to overflow <G>
I will send you some from here too so you have plenty on hand.
Use what you get tomorrow to carry you over.
Albert
Albert,
Will super clean the power heads. I need to advise on placement
of the power heads in the tank. Be specific, describe in inches
from the bottom glass, the outflow of the heads. Also, since I'm
not familiar with "angle degrees" you must describe the direction of the
flow, such as : directly to the front of the glass, pointing straight
from the corner, out towards the center point of the tank, or towards
the opposite end of the tank. Also, I need the correct gph for power
heads needed. This will tell us how powerful the power heads need to be
for a 55 gal tank.
Jola
Jola,
To answer regarding the power heads I need to know which ones you
now have that you can use on this tank (steal a few from Bobby if
necessary <G>).
Place the Power head that feeds the venturi no more than 2 inches
below the surface so you get maximum water pressure from the RIO 2100
into the venturi.
Albert
Albert,
To work with we have 4 Penguin 1140's, 3 RIO 2100's, and 1 X Brand,
that is not all that bad actually, just a small output, but a lot of
push.
Of course 1 RIO will have to run the skimmer.
Jola
Jola
We will use 2 Rios and 2 Penguin I think but give me until later to let
you know exactly.
Albert
Jola,
Here is the suggested use of PH's for the tank:
Left side rear 4 inches below water level, lined up against back glass, stuck to
the short end of the tank: a Rio 2100, water flow from that end of the
tank pointing towards the other end. Right side rear, stuck against the
back glass: a Penguin facing at a 45 degree angle. 3 inches below the water
line. Snug to short side (or as near as you can get it because of the
silicone seams). Front right: Middle of the short pane 5 inches below the
water level, pointing straight at the other end: a Penguin.
Note that this is the first time set up and that we may have to move some
when corals are added should they receive too much flow.
Live Rock will go against some of them (the back ones). Make sure you can
remove the PH's from time to time to clean them.
Hope this is clear enough.
Albert
Albert,
Good work on describing the PH placement. Although, as I told you ,
I'm not good at my angles, but was pretty sure about a 45, still asked
Bobby to make sure. Hate to sound so ignorant, but, just how it is !<G>
In other words, that Power head will be angled so that the outflow is
pushing to the middle of the front glass, right?
Jola
Albert & Jola,
May I suggest a alternative layout for the PHs.....
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| #1~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~#2|
| |
| |
| |
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| #4 .#3|
| . . |
| . . <----#5|
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#1 & #2 are 600l/hr PHs placed on a piece eggcrate and attached to a
spray bar. They are placed at the bottom of the tank with the holes of
the spray bar pointing towards the front of the tank. This will ensure
that there is a nice current blowing gunk forwards.
#3 might be a Rio or two smaller PHs. The output is directed at a point
around the center of the front pane. If a Rio is used then see the
description of #4, if two smaller PHs then one would be at a height of 4
inches and the other at a height of 12 to 14 inches
#4 would be a Rio (I use an Eheim) with a swan neck (or just a straight
piece of tube with a 90 degs. connector on the end) and its flow points to
a place around a third of the way along the front pane. The height of
the output would be at half the height of the tank.
#5 is a Rio with tubing straight up to a couple on inches under the
water level and a 90 degs. connector. The output pushes water straight
along the length of the tank.
Here I am assuming that the output from the sump is from the same area
as #1 and pointing near enough straight down the length of the tank at
the back and straight at the overflow to the sump which is in the back
right.
If #4 and #3 is connected to a wave maker, then I find this gives
excellent turbulence in the tank.
Just FWIW
...... I have spent many hours rearranging the placement of PHs for the
flow and after too many years have found one that I really like.
Andy H
Andy,
That looks like a good alternative to what I suggested. I want to draw
out a diagram and see what gives.
Will then discuss it with Jola. Really appreciate the input.
Albert
Jola,
Take a good look at Andy's positioning too please. Let's decide later
on after we both have had a chance to think it over but Andy's suggestion
is certainly a good set up for the PH's.
Albert
Albert,
Take it FWIW, I works for me. The two PHs with spray bars make my life
much easier. Also I believe that several corals feed on turbid lagoon
water, the stirring up of the sediment is, in part, meant to replicate
this feeding opportunity.
Andy
Andy,
I do like your set up of the power heads. I will stick with the
one we now have for the time being but as more rock gets added I may have
Jola change the set up to the one you recommend.
Did you keep in mind that hers is only a 55?
Albert
Albert,
Wave Maker needed on the power heads????
Jola
Jola,
No we will not be using a wave maker.
Albert
Albert,
Substrate goes in after the rocks are in place, I'm assuming?
Jola
Albert,
Yes we will put the substrate in after all the rock is in and we will
use very fine sand. I do not know whether they have the kind I suggest in
your area so I may have to send it to you from here.
Since you may not find the sand you need in your area I will get it to
you. Since the rock may not be found in shops where you are either I will
order it as well, probably from RE (Reef Encrustaceans). I like to use
deep reef rock that already has lots of coralline algae on it. That is
giving us a head start! Real good in fact.
Yes IME although there are two ways to go:
- put everything in in one go
- put things in gradually
I like option 2 better as it is more forgiving in terms of what happens
to the water quality when a rock and sand are added. With smaller
amounts added, especially in a tank that already has live rock that is
cycled, the effect of adding the rock and then the sand are hardly
noticeable if the rock is well cleaned and prepared. We will of course
do so when we get to that step.
We will use all the rock you have now and place it in the tank in a
slanted manner starting from the front (the low part) towards the back
(the high part).
You will let me know about how much LR you now have in the tank.
Albert
Albert,
I would say, there is -about- 60 lbs. of LR , can maybe get a real
close estimate of this tomorrow while Step 1 is being carried out,
since Ill be taking all the rock out. I could be way off on the lbs..
but tomorrow .
Jola
Albert,
I need a very good description of how to construct the rocks
for the backbone of the system. Remember you are dealing with a tank
that is 48 " long , 13" wide and 21" tall. The height is what concerns
me here. I wouldn't think you would want a big dead space half way from the
bottom extending the rest of the way to the top.
Jola
Jola,
Right now this will look somewhat "odd" because you will see the glass
but in a few weeks when we start putting in sand that will change and the
tank will start to look like a "real" reef, with sand in the front and
rock in the back and animals on top of it.
In the front of the tank there should be a totally open space where we
can put the live sand (or the sand mixed with live sand which is the way
I suggest we go).
Live sand : the set up will include sand that is not live but will be
populated with life forms from the rock rather rapidly.
In addition we will add some real live sand to get the live sand
filtration going faster.
Mixing the two up seems to work very well especially after the live rock
has developed many life forms which can migrate to the sand.
Albert
Albert,
Sounds good on going slow. Have for sure learned the hard way about
moving to fast in Salt.
One question , though, you mention about 2" of live sand. The way
we are going to do this, with the rock going in first on the bottom of
the glass, then the sand going in around the rocks, if it is a 2" depth,
we will be covering up 2" of live rock with sand.
Is this correct? Of course, as you mentioned the whole 2" will not
be put in at once, but, in time if we add up to the 2", 2" of rock
will be submerged in the sand.
Jola
Jola,
No only the front portion of the tank where there is nothing now will be
covered with sand. The portion where there is live rock we are not
putting sand at all.
Some will of course move, but the most part will remain in place. We will
in time place a little piece of acrylic vertically across the whole
length of the tank to hold the two inches in place as much as possible so
it does not move underneath the rocks.
The back portion of the tank where the rock you now have and the new rock
that will be added, is, will not be covered with sand. Only the front of
the tank.
The separator will hold it in place for us.
Albert
Albert,
I was talking about the pro's and cons of a sand bottom versus a versus plenums
with some people. I noted that with the way I had designed my tank that
I had 0 nitrate without any of the possible (sulphide etc.) problems that a large
expansive of 1 or 2 inch sand may cause. Hence I was suggesting that
only a small sand 'bar' as needed without the complications or the need
for large numbers of sand stirrers.
Andy
Andy,
My reasoning was in essence the same, which is not a coincidence, as when
you think about the concept long enough that is indeed what one should
end up with.
The sand bar term is a good way of naming this particular approach. I
like it! <G>
That is exactly what we are doing in Jola's tank.
Have you noticed any accumulation of sediment underneath the eggcrate and
is it evenly spread out or has it all migrated to one area?
I tried this out the way you suggest and found the latter to be the case
especially when heavy water current was present in the tank.
Thoughts?
Albert
Albert,
I don't really get a great deal of accumulation of sediment at all. Some
occurs just behind the spray bars and another section just in front of
the weir.
However, my green serpent star and my watchman goby tend to live under
the eggcrate and every so often I see a plume of 'dust' come up from
under the rocks.
Andy
Andy,
Since the area in Jola's tank does not contain sand where the rock is
there are plenty of open spaces for sediment to settle (if any) and the
fish in the tank will perform the same function in my opinion.
Having the rock on the base of the tank would IMO benefit migration of
animals as they would be closer to the bottom, would not be have the
eggcrate deterioration problem due to the heavy weight although this may
not be a problem.
I feel very comfortable with the manner in which we set Jola's tank up
and know based on previous systems set up in that way that her tank will
do just fine.
Your system if of course just as acceptable in terms of giving you the
successes you have.
Many roads do lead to Rome as they say <G>.
Albert
Albert,
Why not place the rock on something like cut PVC pipe to bring it up the
2" the sand will take up. We all know that it will move to cover the
bottom eventually. This would be an easier way I would think. Less
bother to maintain. BTW I would perforate the pipe as well. FWIW,
Dave & Shani
Dave,
Agreed. I have my rock work on eggcrate (with glass strips to hold the
eggcrate up an inch or so). The glass strip is an inch or two in front
of the edge of the eggcrate.
Andy
Dave & Shani
When all the rock is in we will contain the sand with an acrylic long
narrow piece that runs across the tank.
This leaves sufficient space behind it for the rock to be right on the
glass. We are trying to keep this as simple as we can.
I agree though to set up a true Jaubert as opposed to a Jo-Bert one would
need sand everywhere AND a plenum too. Supporting the rocks in such a
tank would make a lot of sense as well.
BTW, Jola's tank will be easy to convert if she ever wants to convert to a
true Jaubert with Plenum.
Albert
Albert,
As far as ease of setup goes... I would think it would be easier to put
the rock up on something to begin with, instead of permanently placing a
plastic dam in the tank later. Plus you wouldn't have to worry about
keeping the sand to one side of the dam.
Dave & Shani,
Dave ,
Yes you certainly could do it that way, OTOH the method Jola is using has
worked for many and is totally safe.
Placing all the rock on eggcrate and using no sand at all works too BTW
and allows for easy cleaning. OTOH when you set it up that way there is
little life that forms in the substrate <G> since there is none.
The manner JOLA is using will eventually put quite a bit of natural
substrate on the bottom where there is no sand as small pieces of rock
and sediment that is totally mineralized will eventually settle there and
be colonized by small animals.
Albert
Albert,
OK, I understand now. I had thought the concern was with choking off
the lower areas of the rock with sand. I bet it's pretty obvious I'm new
at this. <g>
Dave
Albert,
The acrylic will be in a later step then, right?
Need information here on the rock placement back in the tank. Please
specify if any space is left between the panes of glass at the end of the
tank, how much space between the front glass and the rocks, how much
space to the back of the tank.
For example, if the rocks are to be built in a sort of leaning wall,
starting at the front of the tank, and going towards the back of the
tank. Picture this: you take a panel of plexiglass, the plexiglass is
cut the same size as the tank back, inside measurement, you set it inside
the tank right against the back glass, then you pull the bottom of the
plexiglass towards the front, how many inches would you leave at the
front of the plexiglass? Would you need to cut off at the ends allowing
space there as well?
Now, imagine that you could leave the plexiglass in there where it
is at the angle and everything. You snap your fingers and the space
behind the plexiglass is now full of rock. The rock is completely
against the back glass, sort of a triangle of rocks in there being held
in this shape by the plexiglass and the back of the tank.
Do we snap our fingers again and put in more plexiglass in the back
to hold the rocks off the back glass? If so, how many inches from the
back glass?
Now, of course this is just a way to try and explain how I'm
perceiving the placement of the rock without a picture to go by. If
the rocks are actually constructed in this manner, it would not be a
planned out looking "Triangle" in the tank, you would have many ledges
and such that would make things look natural, but this is the only
comparison that I could come up with to "ask" how this is to be done.
Jola