This is Part Six of JO-BERT, Step By Step Guide To Setting Up Your Own Reef Aquarium. Albert, I have a question for you about the reason you elected to set up Jo-Bert in the manner in which you did. You had told me that the reason that you wanted to set up Jo-Bert with the sand bar , instead of plenum and eggcrate was because it was an existing tank. Now, the question is, would it still not have been better to have completely started over if using plenum and eggcrate would have been the best way? I don't understand all the different methods in which one can use in setting up a reef. Is there not one method that is the absolute very best way to do this? If the way in which we have set up Jo-Bert is the best way , then why fool with plenum and eggcrate? Will all the methods achieve the same rate of success? Jola Jola, I decided to go with the sandbar because that is the way most hobbyists would be able to easily duplicate. Not too many want to take their tank completely apart. There really is no BEST method. The key is in the results one obtains and so far from the postings of tests we are indeed beating any water quality you ever had before. The full Jaubert method would just have been another way to do it not THE way to do it. With the amount of sand in the tank (about 10 percent of the tank by content) we have a hybrid system : partially BM and partially LS. 50 pounds of sand in a tank that does not contain even 50 gallons of water should be just right. the tests you conducted so far seem to prove that. Now we just have to wait for the nitrates to start going down and that should IMO not take too long. The fact that they are not going up is a good sign in itself. I am writing an article on this method and will post it here in Petpro in a few days. It is nearly finished (about 1000 words so far). All is well in Jola and Albert's tank Albert Albert, What about Blue Starfish? OR I have seen African Starfish. Both varities are pretty big. Especially the African ones. I do like the Blue ones, mainly , because they are blue! Jola Jola, By Blue Starfish I suppose you are referring to what is know as Lyngbia stars. Which Africans? Do you see a ref in one of the books you have? We will start with the small red ones and then decide what else to put in (at least that is my suggestion). Albert Albert, Yes, your suggestions are fine with me. I was just talking about starfish to be talking about starfish! The African Starfish that I was refering to is a Protoreaster lincki (Red-knobbed Starfish) . It is pictured on page 359 of "The Book of the Marine Aquarium". The Blue Starfish that I was refering to is a Pentaceraster mammillatus (Common Knobbed Starfish). It is pictured on page 358 of the same book. Jola Jola, Thanks for the references on the Starfish. I was thinking about different ones but that does not matter. Right now though we are going to wait a while and start with small ones. Your tank is not real large and would not support many of them especially since we have so many other things in the tank already. Next is another coral, as I indicated in another message. Albert Jola, Is the book you are reffering to the one by George Blasiola ? Albert Albert, That is fine on the Starfish, as I mentioned, I was just talking about Starfish. They are neat. Don't you think? Those red and white ones are really big. I've seen them at Fishey Business, they almost look fake. Jola Albert, The book is published by Tetra Press, and is written by Nick Dakkin. Jola Jola, Thanks for the info on the book. I do have it. Albert Albert, The only ones that I've seen are the same as I have. Jola Jola, Yes Starfish are nice. We just have to get the timing and the kind we add right. I would prefer adding corals first and then looking at other animals after we see what is needed to keep the tank in balance. Right now things seem just fine (based on the test results although I would like the nitrates to go down naturally a little at a time). Starfish it will be ... soon. Albert Jola, If all conditions remain stable and if all parameters work out OK I think the tank is ready for another coral. What kind would you like to add ? Albert Albert, I like Elegance Corals. What do you think? Jola PS. I also like Torch Corals, they remind me of anemones. I also like Fox Coral. Jola, I would caution you against Elegance corals. They are indeed lovely corals but the size they can expand to and the strength of their sting means that they may well end up being a pain in the end. Fox corals are great but need quite slow moving water and often (here at least) are merely pieces of a larger colony and hence can be prone to dying once in the aquarium. Perhaps a selection of _Euphyllia_ might be nice. They also can expand and sting but don't seem to bother each other. Therefore you can have quite a variety which look spectacular. Another really nice and hardy coral is the Trumpet coral (_Caulastrea_), these really are very nice .... highly recommended! FWIW Andy Andy, Thanks for the input with which I largely agree. I will let Jola make a decision and then we can debate the pro and cons of her choice. Albert Albert, Oh no you , or should I say "yall" don't! I have no idea about these things! I would like to know about one coral though. I dont know the name of it to even look it up. It looks like little "C's" all over and it is irridesent white in color. It is a popular coral. Any ideas as to what I'm refering to? Jola Jola, That would be an Euphyllia coral just like Andy was suggesting. Great minds think alike indeed. The one you are referring to is the Hammer Coral. That would be a good choice. I still think though that an Elegance would be fine too. It's kind of up to you Jola. Albert Andy, Thanks for the input! BTW, it was really nice talking to you last week! First time that I've ever talked to anybody on the phone that was in another country! I know, I know, you are probably thinking , after me saying that, "God, Jola, get a life already! " I hope Albert reads your recommendation on the corals and replys as to what he thinks to . Y'all can thrash it over, I for sure don't know! See Ya! Jola Jola, So there is no confusion about the corals we are talking about: The Hammer coral is _Euphyllia ancora_ The Elegance is _Catalaphyllia jardinei_ Albert Jola, Yup, that's a Euphyllia. Be careful with all Euphyllia's that there is no damage. Although all hard corals are basically a thin skin of a big bit of rock, Euphyllia corals are more easily damaged. Check around the edge of the coral before purchase to see if there is even the slightest amount of damage. Andy Andy, She favors Elegance but is intrigued I believe by Euphyllia. I do not know her selection yet. Either way is fine with me. I fully agree on checking all corals for any damage! Too many are lost because they come in with a timebomb built in so to speak, often unbeknownst to the hobbyist. Right now there are 3 Brittle Stars in the tank. Albert Jola, Just a question about the sand. Is it still the same color? Do you notice any darker spots at all? Just a question .. nothing to worry about. Albert Albert, The sand looks -exactly - as it did before. Today, June 2, at 2:30 pm, the pH is 8.36, ORP is 391, and the NO3 is still at 0.9 ppm. There is no color change on the PO4 test. Jola Jola, Those are prettty good results still (actually better, seems like the ORP keeps climbing). That is excellent. The X-Phos we used removed all the phosphates that were present (although there really were not that many to begin with). Keep some X-Phos and some X-Sil in the system for a while anyway. As time goes on we will remove those because the KW additions and the live sand and live rock nutrient recycling should take care of the phosphate and nitrate removal. The only thing we will really have to wathch for is diatoms. If any appear we will need to continue to use X-Silicate for a while longer. Right now you have not indicated that there are any so I assume none are present. Albert Albert, No, there are not any brown diatoms to indicate any Silicates. Jola Jola, Great, that is what I wanted to hear (read). Sounds like RE sent us some real good quality live sand. The _Nerite_ snails are probably well in the sand and turning it over. These were the real small snails that we added. Good. We do not want any diatoms so if you see any sign of them we need to change the X-Sil immediately. Albert Albert, I've got a question for you! (Again, ) Would a drop in the salinity cause the Brain to be mad? The KW drip has added to much water to the system. I really didnt realize it until it was quite a bit to high. It was a slow thing in doing this. The weather has been real damp and rainy here, this might be the reason for the drip adding to much, since the tank would evaportate less. The SG is on about 1.023 and a half. I have the doors to the cabinet open and the drip cut way down trying to get the water to evaportate back out. What do you think? Jola Jola, The drop in salinity would only affect the Brain if the drop was significant and what you experienced was not significant at all. Add water with a little higher salinity (you can add salt to the KW reactor and it will drip in slowly and raise the s.g. again. Do not add too much though as when the evaporation changes again the s.g. may go up to high. I would add about 5 ounces by weigth to your KW vat. Albert Jola, To get an idea of how the water is could you give me a short description of the color/type of the skimmage in the skimmer cup. Thanks, Albert Albert, It is just real dark brown. I have to empty it about twice a week. Jola Jola, That is a good color to get out of the skimmer. Dark brown to black is excellent it means the skimmer is really working well. Guess the redox of the tank tells us that too You may be wondering why we are not performing any water changes yet. The reason is that I would like to have the water in the tank age for a little longer before we do so. At this point all the readings you have given me are good so there seems to be no reason to change water yet. Let me know pleaselet me know how the Brain is doing today. Albert Albert, Well, one light strip just came on, it does appear to be better today. Will re-post you on this in the evening after the lights have been on all day. Jola Jola, Yes, please do that. Albert Albert, I added 1 cup of dissolved salt to Jo-Bert. According to that SG meter, it had dropped to about 1.023 and a half. Now, the SG is on 1.024 and a half. At 10:30 am the NO3 is still at 9 ppm, pH is 8.22, and the ORP is 415. Jola Jola, Excellent, Let's keep it there. Albert Jola, Thanks for the test results. Gee, that ORP really keeps climbing. I think it may be time to clean the probe and see if we get the same number. If you need help with how to clean the probe let me know. Albert Albert, It is 1pm , and the Brain is looking better! I can tell that it is pulling in water and re-inflating . Do you think it was the gradual drop in the SG that it was not liking? You got me for sure on the method of bumping up the SG, I didnt check my messages before doing this on my own! The Brain is happier, though! Will keep you updated on how it is later today. Jola Jola, It really is difficult to say what made the Brain re-expand. The s.g. could have something to do with it but I would guess that it is more the position in the tank, the light and the current and then last but not least acclimating itself to the water. I am not saying it was NOT the s.g. but if it was then it would have been one of many possible factors. Albert Albert, You still have not posted the additive schedule. Ive been kinda "winging" it until you do. Jola Jola, You should no wing it ! I have not posted it yet becaue I really did not want you to start adding much yet. I will put a schedule together for you and we will start adding iodine and Liquid Gold and Pro Grow as soon as you have the schedule. How much have you been putting in, and what exactly > Albert Albert, I cleaned the probe in a solution of vinegar. The reading at 9pm is 404 and the pH is 8.40 (I cleaned it , too) Jola Jola, Good readings indeed. Did you recalibrate the pH electrode after cleaning it ? I like those readings a lot. Albert Albert, Well, tonight at 8:30 the Brain looks better than it did yesterday, but is still not fully expanded yet. Still, as I said it is improved over how it was all dehydrated looking and clinched up. It is going to be okay, I think. Don't worry! Ive not been putting in like gobs and gobs of anything. A couple of days ago, I added a teaspoon of LGP and 8 drops of ProGro, and 5 drops of Iodine. Thats all. I for sure wont add anything else until instructed. You sound kind of shook up ! Jola Jola, No Jola I was not "shook up" but I just wanted to know how much you DID put in. What you added was fine. Let's leave the Open Brain where it is for a few days and then decide what we need to do with the Open Brain. Maybe we will reposition it once more in an area with less light. Below is the schedule I would like you to follow with regard to the additives for the tank, based on what it in the tank now of course. This will change as more animals are added. - Liquid Gold : 1/2 tsp per day - Pro Grow : 5 drops per day - Iodine: 8 drops per day - Kalwasser : as much as needed to replace all evaporated water Please let me know whether you have any questions about this. You can start this as of today. ( June 5, 1995) We are now well in the second week of having added live sand to the tank, in fact we are nearly in the third week. Since we have not seen any ammonia or nitrite develop we know that the sand did not add any die off to the tank, or if it did the biological filtration in the aquarium took care of it easily. The steadily climbing ORP and the stable pH indicate that the tank is "mature" for its age and that water quality is high. As I indicated we will be adding one more coral this week. You expressed an interesst in both Elegance Coral (_Catalaphyllia jardinei_) and in the Hammer Coral (_Euphyllia ancora). Please let me know which one you would like to add so I can order it for you. So far our joint effort (with you doing most of the work really) has proven that one can indeed set up a tank by electronic mail and be successful. The conditions in our Jo-Bert tank are living proof of that. Congratulations. Albert Albert, The only question I have is concerning Iodine, Growth Hormone, and KSM. This sounds very high compared with the labeling of Iodine , and you did not mention Growth Hormone or KSM. I'm not trying to be a smart butt! Just wondering about this. Jola Jola, The higher amount of iodine recommended than on the label is due to the fact that the tank has a great deal of soft corals in it. On labels one has to give general recommendations since one does not know what hobbyists have in their tanks. In the case of Jo-Bert I do know which animals are in it so it is easier to adjust the dosages of all additives to the population. Because the number of animals is still fairly low, there is enough KSM in the Liquid Gold itself to take care of that. The GHF is not necessary yet because right now we are focusing our attention more on water quality than on coral growth. First we make sure the environment is healthy for all corals and then we refocuse our efforts on making them grow. Mind you the addition of Pro-Grow already goes in that direction. If you have any further questions regarding additives let me know Jola. Albert Albert, No, Im satisified with this reply to my questions about the additives. One question , though. Is the additives what the corals actually eat? Jola Albert, I had about a 3 1/2 hour power outage this evening due to a bad storm. The electricity went off at 4:20 pm. Everything in the tank sort of went into its "night mode". The leather kinda closed up to rest. The Bubble exposed its mouth and got alot of tenticles. All the polyps closed up as well. After the electricity came back on, all the corals went back into their "day time" mode. Everything that was closed up, opened back up. The Bubble got all bubbly again. The long power outage does not seemed to have bothered any inhabitants in Jo-Bert. I ran some tests after the 3 1/2 hour power outage, they are as follows: Ammo-0 Nitrites-0 Nitrate- 9ppm (still) pH-8.37 ORP-427 (highest its been yet) The Texas Longhorn crab has escaped into the rocks and I cant find it. Do you think he will come back to the sand? I moved the Brain, again. It does seem to be getting much better. I think more than anything, it has just taken it longer to really acclimate . It is mid-level in the tank with moderate current and a little bit of shade to the back of it. I think it is going to be fine. I just wanted to let you know of some life forms that are in Jo-Bert , that we did not intentionally add. There are 2 clams that are actually made into the rocks. They are doing very well. I have seen 2 very small completely clear anemones coming out of the rocks, I cant find in a book what they are. I have seen several Spagetti Worms. This am at 5:30, (June 7) the ORP is on 445. This is a jump of 18 in 9 hours! I think the Brain is still doing okay. I would like for you to look at the picture on the front of "Advanced Reef Keeping", there is a Green Open Brain on the cover. Look at the Brain in the picture at 4 o'clock. Do you see how that particular area of the Brain looks on the cover of the book? That is how the Brain in Jo-Bert looks as a whole. What about this? Jola Jola, Thank you Jola. I will order and Euphyllia ancora for you for arrival on Friday June 9 by FEDEX. Acclimate it for some time as it may need to adjust to both the temperature and the pH in your tank. Placement is base horizontal and polyps facing up towards the light. Place at mid level or lower. "Is the additives what the corals really eat ...." Yes and No. I know that is not much of an answer but it is the best way to explain it. Corals absorb the nutrients you add to the water from the water and use them in their nutritional needs. Most of what they absorb is converted by metabolism within their bodies and not used in the form that you put it in the tank. Hope this explains it. Some corals need supplemental food just as the fishes do. It is a good idea IMO to provide some added food one a week or once every two weeks. Shrimp and Scallop meat will do fine. It is added in the same manner as the Fluffy One is fed: put the small piece on a thin stick, bring it close to the coral and let the coral take it off the stick. That is really all there is to it. If you need more info let me know. These things do indeed happen. I am glad the outage was for 3 hours only. Seems like you had no major problems as you did not report any. Test for ammonia and nitrite today anyway just to double check that none is present. When the lights go out the corals go into their night mode and so what you observed is obviously normal. Did the Tiger Tail go in the sand by any chance Just kidding! I am glad to hear everything went back to normal after three hours of no power and no circulation in the tank. I guess it tells us something bout the potency of the filtering of the rock and the sand. Usually power outages do create problems. It seems that in the case of Jo-Bert there have been none! Let's see if any ammonia developed today ... Real interesting and real good. I am quiete pleased the tank is doing so well even after losing power for 3 hours. The next couple of days will tell us more though. No by itself it will not be able to climb back onto the sand unless it drops itself off a rock in the front. See if you can find it and then replace it on the sand. Otherwise all I can suggest is that you wait and see what happens. It is bound to show up somewhere. It's shape does not really give it much room to move around I would say. Let me know what you find Jola. Good to hear the Brain is doing better. Seems like you may now have found the spot that is just ideal for it. Keep me posted on how it is doing. As is the case with most live rock, animals come in with it that we do not know are there until they show themselves. Hey, that is good. We have more lifeforms than we thought. The clams and spaghetti worms (Terrebellid worms) are fine and will not harm anything. The Terrebellid worms extend these long white tentacles with what looks like little suction cups at the end in search of food. You should be able to find more details on them in the books I sent you if you wish to read up more on them. They do not need feeding. They find food themselves. You will be surprised to see how long those tentacles can stretch out! I am really amazed at how high the redox is going even after the power outage. This is a sign that the filtration in the tank is really working well and that nutrient recycling is taking place as it should. The tank is progressing in the right direction. I cannot say more. If the Brain looks like the one on the cover of ARK 1 then it is indeed doing well. It may open more from time to time but if it does not you have nothing to worry about. That photo is a partial of view of one of my tanks BTW. Albert ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - FOR REVIEW ONLY - NO RIGHTS GRANTED This file is distributed by the PetsForum Group through its forums on Compuserve for personal use only. Other distribution or use requires the written permission of the copyright holder and the PetsForum Group.