This is Part 9 of the Jo-Bert saga. A step by step guide to setting up a reef tank.

Jola,
Since we now know that Coralife Energy Savers "is" donating the set of
MH that are going to make a whole lot of difference on the tank we can
start planning for their use and the change over.
We need to do the following :
- real accurate measurement of the nitrates
- and phosphates
- DO
- Temp.
Pls. take these measurements in the morning and also in the evening after
the lights have gone out.
Pls. also measure the s.g. and the pH and ORP in the same manner.
You were going to send me a water sample as well so I could do some
additional testing here.
Here is the lighting schedule for when the new Energy Savers donated
lights arrive :
- first 3 days .... 3 hours
- next 3 days ......4 hours
- next 2 days .... 5 hours
- next 2 days .... 6 hours
- next 2 days .... 7 hours
- next 2 days and from then onwards 8 hours.
We will try and run the tank with a max. of 8 hours of this lighting and
decide as we go along whether or not we should increase the lighting
period (photoperiod) or not.
Albert

Albert,
YES INDEED!!!!!! This is for sure terrific news!!!!!
I want you to relay my sincere gratitude to Energy Savers
for their contribution!
I feel like just saying "Thanks" is no where near enough.
Jola

Jola :
I will call Energy Savers and relay your message to them.
I am sure they are happy to be part of this most unique project we
embarked on.
Seems like ages ago ... <G>
Albert

Albert,
Yes, it does seem like ages ago! <G> We have come a long way in a short
time! <G>
Well, I test for these parameters as accurately as I can already.
If you are going to require these test results twice a day, I will need
some more regents.
I'm assuming that you want these tests performed in the am and again in
the pm for 14 days because this was the length of the "break in " period for
the lights.
Jola

Jola :
No I just would like the tests performed each time you make a lighting
change (length) and just before you switch to the MH.
How is that Elegance doing now ?
Albert

Albert,
Really nothing to report on it, its doing about the same , which is not
all that great.
Jola

Jola,
I now know based on our tel. con that your dKH is way too high and up to
19 degrees.
What I told you to do is:
Take 1 quart of water, add 1 tsp. of KW powder, stir it up, add the
mixture slowly to the aquarium over a period of about one half hour.
Then wait about 30 minutes and do another KH test.
I will call you to find out what the results are.
We will then decide what to do next.
Albert

Albert,
Hmmm, sounds like water change time to me.
Andy

Andy :
No we are going to do it using KW in really milky solution and lower the
dKH in that manner.
Albert

Albert,
Danger of snowstorms?????
Andy

Andy:
Not at the rate we are using it. I told Jola to add a little bit at a
time over a period of 30 minutes or so to avoid the dreaded plating and
snowstorm effect <G>
We seem to have been successful since the dKH came down to 13 from 19
and the pH was only 8.3 (or so this morning).
I will have her redo the same today or tomorrow to bring it down
further.
I see your point though. Unless one knows how to do this the danger of a
calcium fall out is high.
Albert

Albert,
Glad you have tried this before .. it just seems that the only have to
decrease the dKH using this method seemed via ppt, hence my comment.
Nice to know that it is a viable method ... thanks!
Andy

Andy :
Yes it is and I have tried it before, the key is to add the KW slowly
and little bits at a time.
If too much is added too rapidly the "snow storm" will happen indeed.
Albert

Albert,
At 6:30 pm , the dKH is down to 13 degrees, I am in the process of adding
another quart of KW slowly to the system.
Jola

Jola :
Excellent. We have managed to do what we intended. Let me know what the
dKH is after the further addition of KW.
Also keep an eye on that pH and let us know what it stabilizes at.
Thanks.
Albert

Jola :
Let me know tonight if you can what the dKH goes down to.
How do you like the new venturi (I know you have not tried it).
Looks quite nice does it not. Built-in check valve too.
Made by Mazzei.
Albert

Albert,
What's a Check Valve?
And yes, it does look awesome.
Jola

Jola,
A check valve prevents water from flowing out of the venturi (in this
case) when the pump stops.
In general a check valve is a valve that allows e.g. the water to flow
only in one direction and not the other. It is also called a one way
valve.
Did you use the Yellowing test on both tanks ? What did you come up
with?
Albert

Albert,
Yes, I used it on both tanks.
Both of them say the carbon is good.
By using this test, I did not throw away about 1 1/2 cups of carbon .
I would have "just in case" , had I not had the test.
Sorry, I'm one of them " just in case" kind of hobbyists.
Jola

Jola
Glad to hear the Yellowing tests allowed you to figure out that the
carbon was still good on one hand and that the tank's water was not
yellowing on the other.
No need to replace the carbon then and no need yet to perform a water
change unless we find another reason to do so.
The YELLOWING test is real handy and at 5.00 saves hobbyists quite a bit
of money as it tells them when their carbon is spent and when it is not
and also allows them to determine whether a water change is necessary or
not.
Looks like we may not need to make a water change at this stage unless
the yellowing test shows that the water has accumulated organics.
How did you like the Yellowing test? Easy to use?
Albert

Albert,
According to the test, the water was not yellow.
I did like the ease of using the test!
This test leaves out the guess work of when to replace carbon, therefore
saving me $$$!
Good carbon is not exactly cheap! I have thrown out carbon that was
probably still good, but wasn't sure.
Don't guess you have a test for Super Chem do you?
Don't you dare tell me that I'm crazy for using both , since Super Chem does
have your Carbon in it , either!<G>
I guess, I do go overboard, huh?
Jola

Jola :
Yes the idea of the Yellowing test was to save people money and make it
easier to figure out whether they needed to change their carbon or not.
No I do not have a similar test for SuperChem but a nitrate and a
phosphate test can tell you whether it is time to change that one.
Well it looks like Andy got his manual and you have your new suggested
additive list at just about the same time.
- Liquid Gold Pro 1 tsp. per 25 gallons twice a week
- Iodine 5 drops twice a week
- Pro Grow 1 tsp. twice a week
- KSM 1 tsp. three times a week
- KW replace all evaporated water with it
- Feeding
- anemone once a week
- corals (stony) once a week
- soft no feeding
- fish a little every day
- Carbon at this point unless your Yellowing test
shows that the water is yellowing we do not
need to use it. If it is yellowing then use
1/2 cup until the yellowing is gone.

Well Mrs. Jola, that is the new schedule for you.

Should you have any questions let me know.

Albert

Albert,
As long as I got this schedule before Andy, then I'm happy!<G>
Really, the only questions I have about this schedule are:
1. On the LGP, Iodine, and Pro Grow, which are all twice a week
dosages, is it okay to add them all the same day, and is it okay to add them
at the same time ?
2. The KSM is a 3 times a week dosing schedule, so there is one extra
time to add this additive in comparison to the others, is it okay to add the
KSM at the same time with the other additives the other two dosages?
3. On feeding the anemone; even today, when I fed the Clownfish a
frozen piece of Formula One, he fed it to the anemone, and the anemone did
eat it. Does this mean that I still feed the anemone one time a week
exclusively?
Jola

Jola :
It would be better to split them up over the days of the week and not
add them all at the same time on the same day but you could also add one
in the morning and one in the evening of the same day.
If you started wit say
LGP on Monday morning
Pro Grow on Tuesday morning
Iodine on Wednesday morning
KSM on Monday eve
etc. ...
It should be easy to just fill in the rest.
When you need to add two on the same day it is better to add one in the
morning and one in the evening.
The tank conditions in the reef are getting better and better. With the
nitrates down to 3 from 8 or 9 they were the last time we now know that
the filtration is working and that the nitrate reducing bacteria have
built up in the sand and the rock.
As time goes on this number should get lower yet.
You have accomplished what you needed to. The tank is now seeded with
all the bacteria needed. That was quick IMO. Great job.
check the nitrates again in a few days and let's see where we are.
Albert

Albert,
Will do on the nitrate test.
Note that yesterday, when I performed this test, I performed it with the
dilution method.
Jola

Jola
That is even better as it gives us an even more accurate number. You did
multiply by the dilution factor did you ?
Albert

Albert,
Yes, the test showed 0.3 by the dilution method, so 0.3 x 10 is 3.
Jola

Jola :
Very good indeed. Your math is up to par with mine!
3 ppm is a real good reading indeed.
I would like to bring the KH down a little more. Do the same as you did
before adding milky KW slowly over a period of 30 min. or so.
Use about 16 oz this time and spread the addition in little amounts.
Then after a few hours take another dKH test. You have 2 kits coming so
you will have plenty to perform the tests.
The key now is to add the KW in small amounts at a time.
Ideally, over a period of time, we want the dKH to go down to around 7.
Mind you now that it is low it should start dropping by itself too.
Before you take any action measure it again to see what you come up
with. The last reading we had was 12 I believe. If it is any lower let
me know as we must then evaluate whether you should add the KW at all.
Depends on where the dKH is at.
Albert

Albert,
Yes, yesterday, the dKH was 12, which this is what it was at (or 13),
for such a long time.
We felt that this was too high all that time, did we not?
When you say "add KW at all" do you mean the replacement drip water?
Jola

Jola,
Not what I meant was continue the KW drip for the evaporation but do
some more of what you did to lower it from 19 to 12, as explained in my
other message.
If you need further clarification let me know,
Albert

Albert,
No, that is fine, I will start doing that again this evening.
Jola
Jola :
OK, do not stop the KW drip. You need to continue that.
Given the fact that the dKH is now at 8 (check pls. whether it stays
there) there is indeed no need to lower it further.
All you need to do now is re-adjust the KW drip to compensate for the
higher evaporation associated with the higher temperature.
The higher KW drip should increase the pH somewhat which is good.
According to Energy Savers the lights will arrive today.
You have the schedule of lighting (I posted it several days ago) and
that is what I would like you to use.
Gradually acclimating the corals to the new intense lighting will
prevent coral bleaching.
With the higher heat developed by these bulbs keep an eye on the temp.
pls. There are extractor fans in the unit so it should not be too bad
but the temp may go up nevertheless. Let me know what happens.
Thanks.
Albert

Albert,
Have got the lighting schedule on the FRIDGE <G>
I am pretty sure that the temp will go up since this unit does sit on the
tank itself.
What kind of temp do you think this will raise the tank to? Will this
IYO cause any kind of problems?
What I'm afraid is going to happen , is an increase during the day, then
at night it will drop back down.
Temp fluctuations are not good.
Jola

Jola :
Yes as you add the lights the temperature will go up during the day and
it will go down during the night. Because the rise and fall are slow
though it will not affect the animals in the reef.
Albert

Albert,
Ill tell you, it was like Christmas today when the UPS truck ran today!<G>
I got the lights all hooked up and running.
I did have the actinics on, but I turned them off until you tell me what
to do about them.
With just the 2 10000k MH bulbs on, the tank has an appearance of a
beautiful shade of whitish/ blue.
The tank has a real strobing effect due to the currents at the top of the
water. Is this okay?
I don't look to see any effects of the lights on the corals for a few days
when they have gotten more accustomed to this lighting.
Jola

Jola,
I can imagine your surprise indeed. These are "some" lights. Glad you
are pleased with them.
Leave the actinics off for the time being and let's see how the corals
react to the 10 000 K lights alone.
If all is well we will try adding an actinic for a few hours a day and
see if any improvement is visible.
Post us a message how the corals were doing.
Yes the ripple effect makes it look so natural don't you think?
Albert

Albert,
Yes, it does look natural. Of course the only comparison that I have is
with a creek.
It is a very stobing effect . Kinda makes you feel sick.
Jola

Jola,
The effect of those lights indeed give ripples over the rock. You can
attenuate it by reducing the surface movement.
You will get used to it though. I personally like it.
Albert

Albert,
The lights have been on for 2 hours, now.
So far, the only difference that I can tell in corals is the Elegance.
It is really looking much better and more open.
After the lights had been on for 1hour, the pH was on 8.23, the ORP was
451, and the temp was +80.
After the lights had been on for 2 hours, the pH is 8.27, the ORP is 445,
and the temp is 81.
Will update you again in about an hour, right before the lights go off for
today.
Jola

Jola
That is excellent. I also like the fact that the temp only went up one
degree.
As the lights stay on for longer this is going to change though.
Readings after two hours are really good indeed.
Keep us posted.
The variations between the one hour and two hour readings are totally
normal.
Albert

Albert ,
At 4pm, the lights have been on for nearly 3 hours, I must say, the
last hour has made a big difference!
The GS mushrooms, are at least double the size in diameter that they were.
The Elegance is really opening up! It is just beautiful!
The Cabbage looks better than it ever has, real healthy looking.
The Bubble is even looking better ! The 1/3 of it that did not turn
white looks so great, the part that did turn white does look much better than
it did? Any chance that it will color back up in that area?
I almost hate to turn the lights off!
Jola

Jola,
Glad all the corals are doing great after 3 hours. Yes I know, turning
off the lights when they look that great is hard.
It needs to be done though to gradually acclimate the corals to the
higher intensity.
The symbiotic algae may grow back in the bubble. I cannot guarantee you that
they will though.
Let's see what happens after we run the lights for a while and add actinic
lighting.
Albert

Albert,
Test results after the lights had been on for 3hours are as follows:
ORP- 445 SG->.024 pH-8.30 Temp -81 DO- 9mg/L
PO4-0.5 dKH-8 Ca- 360 Nitrates- 3ppm
Jola

Jola,
Those are excellent results except for the PO4 which is a bit high but
for the time being if their are no algae in the tank we are not going to
worry about it, glad nitrates came down to 3.
Temp is OK. let's see what happens after they stay on longer.
Albert

Albert,
Yes, I agree that the PO4 was a little bit high, but , you did mention
that corals such as the Leather needed a tiny bit of Phosphate.
When I pulled all the PO4 out, it did not look so good. Of course, the
lights having done a complete turn around might would persuade that factor.
None the less, we do need to keep an eye on the PO4 and the algae,
right?
Jola

Jola,
Yes a little PO4 is good especially for the soft corals you have
(Leather and Cabbage especially).
Yes do keep an eye on algae though. OTOH the crabs should take care of
that IMO.
As far as I understand there are no algae anywhere right now except for
some turtle grass. Have you removed any more of it. You can and should.
Albert

Albert,
No, I haven't removed any more of the Turtle Grass. I will.
Jola

Jola :
Yes pls. do as we do not need it in the tank.
Interesting, interesting indeed that the dKH has come down to 8.
Albert

Albert,
To be honest with you, I think it was the test.
The first test that I ran on the tank with the new test stuff that you
sent , was 8, so I re-ran the test, it was 8 again.
I just don't think that it dropped 4 degrees without doing anything else.
Of course, then again, it might have dropped the 4 degrees, because
the Ca dropped to 360, and I used the same kit that I had been using to test
for this.
Jola

Jola,
Normally when the KH drops the calcium goes up. It seems that here we have a
calcium drop which occurred because we forced the dKH to go down.
The Ca++ should slowly go back up as the KW is added.
When the temperature goes up and evaporation increases more KW needs to go in.
That will raise the calcium, which right now is a little low.
The calcium seems a little low right now but with the higher temp, the
evaporation should increase and more KW will be added which should
increase the Ca++
Albert

Albert,
I did run just a few tests at 10pm. Results are as follows:
pH- 8.42 ORP- 440 Ca- 390 dKH- 8
Just let me know when you want other tests, or a complete series and I
will run them and post the results. Okay?
Tomorrow , I might be going to the city, if they have some neat corals
would it be okay to get one?
Maybe a nice Hammer, or something? Also, I really like Flame Hawkfish,
what do you think about one of these for Jo-Bert?
OR, are there any other fishes that you want to put in Jo-Bert. I
would really like to get something tomorrow, if it is okay, if not ok,
then I wont.
Jola

Jola,
You can get some gobies if you want. They are nice additions to the reef
and are true reef fishes.
I would not get more corals at this point unless you see a real nice
Hammer (as you say - make sure there is no damage to it).
You could look for some soft corals too. Any type nothing in particular
as long as they are soft corals.
Let me know what you got.
Albert

Albert,
Okay, neat, I think I will go for sure then. Will let you know what I
get there!
Jola

Jola,
As I said, soft corals mostly if you get stuff. They will be easy to add
to the tank.
If you do go to Nashville and get stuff let us know what it was.
Albert

Albert,
At 9:30 am, the ORP is 447, the pH is 8.34, the DO is 8mg/L, and
the Nitrate is 3 ppm.
Are there any other tests that you want me to do today?
Jola

Jola,
No, that is excellent. All those numbers are well in line and are better
than what you would find in most tanks.
All seems to be going fine right now.
Good job.
Small differences in the ORP are nothing to worry about. The time of
day, the temp and the pH may bring these small difs about. The general
range though is that it is high which is good and which is what we want.
Albert

Albert,
Yes, the temp was still 81 after 3 hours.
Jola

Jola,
Well I guess that answers my other message. Thanks for letting me know
that the temp went up to 81 which is the same as what it was on the
previous day with the lights on for three hours.
How is the anemone reacting under the new lighting set up ?
Albert

Albert,
The anemone is still really acting the same way. It has moved up just a
-little - in the tank. Not much.
Jola

Jola,
Does it appear to like the light? Is it bigger than before? How far from
the top is the anemone now?
Are you still feeding it a little as we agreed you would do?
Albert

Albert,
Everything in there -loves- the light! It has only been in there for a
couple of weeks, so it did not really have time to be affected , I don't
think, by the weaker lighting.
It is doing excellent. As is the Cap Clown.
Jola

Jola,
Oh yes Jola lighting conditions have changed a great deal for all the
corals. They have been at the catching station, and the collector, then
shipped in the dark, then held at the wholesaler etc. .. then in your
tank with fluorescent tubes for several weeks.
The corals you have would not react well to 10 hours of full intensity
lighting right from the start hence our gradual acclimating them to this
new lighting.
Good to hear the are all doing well though. Today is the day you are
going to 4 hours if I am correct.
Those couple of weeks with different lighting can make a big difference.
Albert

Albert,
Yes, I feed either a very small piece of shrimp or scallop to each of the
corals with a mouth, once a week, OR
I put a piece of shrimp or scallop in the food processor with a little
water and put that in the tank.
I really don't know which is the best to do, or if I should just alternate
weeks with this kind of feeding.
Jola

Jola:
At this stage the once a week individual feeding is better IMO.
The once a week feeding pollutes the water less and ensures that the
corals do get the food.
You may want to add a little food that has been processed in the blender
once a week, but about 1/4 of what you use just for the sake of
maximizing feeding and to make some food available to the other animals
that are there that you cannot feed individually.
Do you notice any difference in size ?
Albert

Albert,
No, I haven't noticed any size difference in the anemone. It is weird . It
will get really small and tightened up, then a couple of hours later about
4" in diameter.. It does this all the time.
Jola

Jola,
Anemones like to change size and shape. This is not unusual. With the
feeding and the higher photosynthesis the house as you call it should
start growing though.
Albert

Albert,
Yes, I figured that the house would start growing, as you said.
There is definitely some photosynthesis going on in there, since the
lights were added.
While they are on, I've noticed that little bitty bubbles are in the tank,
I don't know exactly where they come from.
Jola

Jola,
The little bubbles are actually oxygen bubbles coming out of solution
because you already have such a high saturation.
They kind of stick to everything. This goes on for a while and then they
seem to naturally disappear. Where the bubbles form there are usually
real small algae as those are the ones forming the bubbles for the most
part.
Some get absorbed into the water and some do not. One in a while you
will see them rise to the surface.
You may want to do an oxygen test close to when the lights are going
back out to see if there was indeed a rise in saturation.
Have the nitrates gone down, up or are they still at 3 ppm total ?
Albert

Albert,
The nitrate is still 3ppm.
Jola

Jola,
Thanks that is not bad at all. let's see what happens to the NO3 in the
next week or so.
I would imagine that with the new ESU 10 000 K lighting, DO levels re
high during the day, what are they early in the morning though, when the
lights have not come on yet.
Albert

Albert,
At 9:30 am, the DO is 8mg/L.
Jola

Jola,
That is an excellent DO reading considering the lights are not on at
that time.
I like it.
This is your last day of 3 hour photoperiod.
Tomorrow we are going to 4 hours.
Do not add any Tangs to the tank at this time please.
When you switch to 4 hours a day of lighting, let us know pls. what the
temp in the tank does. Thanks.
I guess we both expected that the corals would look better indeed but
confirmation is always good to get.
A report would be nice indeed so others know what is going on and how
the corals are reacting to the ESU 10 000 K light.
What times are you running the lights now (on/off).
Albert

Albert,
Today, I have the actinics set to come on about 11:50, and go off about
4:10, the MH's are set to come on at noon and go off at 4pm.
Is this okay?
Jola

Jola,
Yes that is OK. Let us know what the temp is when the lights go off.
Let us know too how the animals react to the longer photoperiod.
You have not described lately what the sand bar looks like.
Any changes ?
Albert

Albert,
The only change at all in the sand bar , is the rubble on the top of it,
mostly the rubble is broken pieces of shells.
Jola

Jola,
Good if those are all the changes that took place then everything is
fine. If all the shells bother you, throw them behind the acrylic
separator so they are out of your sight.
Albert

Jola,
I forget ... did you ever have a sea cucumber, or do you just have lots of
herb crabs and snails ..
Andy

Andy,
Hey stranger!
Yes, there is a Sea Cucumber in there. He stays mostly on the rocks.
Jola

Jola,
Howdy <G>
I remember now that you said it stays in the rocks .... Albert was on about
contacting RE about it since it was thought to be a sand dwelling wasn't it.
Anyway, how is it getting on .. even if it is in the wrong place <G>
And how are you?
Andy

Andy,
I'm doing fine, and how are yall?
The Cucumber, his name is Carlos, BTW., is still doing great! He just
goes to the sand mostly at night, and does not stay there all that long, and
he does not just dig and dig in it. He just eats on the top of it some then
goes back to the rocks. But he is interesting when you do see him, and he
seems hardy enough.
Glad to hear from you! Don't be a stranger!
Jola

Albert,
The lights just went off. The temp still did not increase past 81.
The pH went to 8.45 and the ORP went to 426.
I think one reason for the ORP decrease is due to one of the Clams that is
made on to a rock died.
Is the ORP that responsive to just a Clam dying?
Jola

Jola,
The ORP is responsive to any pollution. Stick your hand in the tank for
a few minutes and the ORP will go down.
That is how sensitive it is.
Yes the dying of the clam would make the ORP drop. What do you see that
makes you think the clam is dead? If it is you need to remove the fleshy
material !!!!
Albert

Albert,
I am sure that it is dead, I don't know what made it die, it was fine
yesterday.
The shell is open and I can see the mussel.
I guess nothing lives forever.
Jola

Jola,
No nothing lives forever but if there is something in the tank that
attacks your clams or shells we need to find out what it is before it
does any other damage.
Could be a bristle worm, could be small snails.
Albert

Albert,
Well, I will for sure keep an eye on the others and see what gives!
Jola

Jola,
Yes that would indeed be a very good idea. I wonder why the one died.
Check for the tiny snails and check to make sure those darn crabs are
not the cause. I don't think so but confirmation would be nice.
If you take a close look at the shell, do you see real small snails on
it or not?
Can you take it out to inspect if from closer by ?
Albert

Albert,
I had to take out the top portion of the shell to remove the dead material,
remember, these clams are parts of large rocks, I did not see anything on
the shell ,or on the mussel inside the shell either.
Jola

Jola,
Well if you did not see anything then I must assume there are none. You
could shine a flashlight at the others if you cannot see close enough and
check those to see if there is anything suspicious on their outsides.
Albert

Albert,
Checked with the flash light, I don't see anything amiss.
Jola

Jola,
Good. Then I would not worry.
The others should get some food when you add the mush to the tank (the
food prepared in the blender).
Glad the temp did not rise above 81 with lighting on for 4 hours.
The ORP will also go down whenever you add food to the tank ?
Any idea why the clam died ?
Did the crabs get into it. Is it a bristle worm ?
Albert

Albert,
I just don't know why it died. I did get it out, though, there are a
couple of others in there that are fine.
Jola

Jola,
I checked on our Tiger Tail again and Kathy tells me that, yes, during
the day it will be in the rocks and that during the night it will come
out for a while and sift some sand.
That is all the info I have been able to find so far.
Albert

Albert,
Now, that I will agree with! <G> I have observed that many times.
It does not stay in the sand all that much, and when it does go to the
sand, it just "eats" around on the sand , just like it does on the rocks.
Jola

Jola,
According to Kathy that is exactly what it is supposed to me so she may
be right after all.
Any idea how long it does that when it is actually processing sand ?
Albert

Albert,
I've seen it in the sand for maybe an hour.
IMO, it prefers the rocks, since that is where it does stay for 23 out of
24 hours.
Jola

Jola,
One hour in the sand is more than I thought. It can process quite a bit
of it in that amount of time. At least it IS going in the sand.
As the temp increases so will the evaporation. Have you adjusted the KW
drip ?
How much KW are you dripping in now per day (approx.)
What is the AM pH and what is the PM pH?
Thanks.
Albert

Albert,
So far the system is not losing any more that it was, still about 5
gallons per week.
The AM pH is 8.37 and the PM pH is 8.43.
Jola

Jola,
Thanks. Seems like the evaporation is pretty stable then so far.
Let's keep checking it as time goes on and the lights stay on for
longer.
The variation in pH is not very large. Not that there is anything wrong
with that. It seems normal right now since KW is added continuously.
How low does the temp. go (e.g. in the AM when you first get up -- maybe
you want to check it around 6:00 AM tomorrow <G>)
Albert

Albert,
The temp goes down to 80 degrees. I looked at it at 7:30 AM, but I have
looked at it at 2:30am and it was 80 also.
So far with the lights on for 4 hours , it has increased to 81.
Jola

Jola,
That is very good indeed. Then we do not have a large fluctuation.
I like the fact that the temp only goes one degree so far. I guess
tomorrow you are going to five hours right? We will have to check again
and see if that makes the temp go up more.
Albert

Albert,
Yes, tomorrow, I'm supposed to go to 5 hours. I will not be here.
Do you want me to go ahead and increase to 5 hours today, so we can make
sure everything goes okay? OR wait until Friday?
Jola

Jola,
I think I would rather have you increase it to 5 today while you are
there and make sure everything is OK. Good idea.
Let us know how things look and how they react if any different.
Thanks
Albert

Albert,
I didn't get this message in time to make the increase, it will have to
wait until Friday, unless you want me to go ahead and make the increase
without me being here. Let me know.
Jola

Jola
It is best then to wait till Friday. I would prefer that you are there.
Have a nice two days off and win a bundle.
Albert

Albert,
At 7:30 pm , the pH is on 8.52. This is after I cleaned the probe. Isn't
this to high? I'm worried.
Jola

Jola
Yes that is on the high side but if it is only for a short time it is
not dangerous.
I suggest you weaken your KW solution somewhat and/or make sure no
powder is being sucked up at the same time (you indicated on the phone
to me that this may have been the case.
In any event pls. check it in the morning. Tks
Albert

Albert,
Yes, it must have been the powder, because this am it was 8.39, which
is still high for the morning reading , but at least its coming down now.
Jola

Jola,
Yes indeed it must have been the powder going in. It's still a little
high as you say but my feeling is that it will come down.
Let's see what it is when you come back from the trip.
Let's do another O2 test and another NO3 test in the morning as well.
Thanks.
Albert

Albert,
I just went ahead and run a bunch of tests , results are as follows:
July 6th, 5:30 AM
pH- 8.39 ORP- 430 SG- +024 DO- 8 mg/l Ca-
420
PO4- >1.0 Nitrate- 3ppm dKH- 9
I added some X-P04 to the sump in an area of good flow to pull out the P04.
Jola

Jola,
When you have had a chance to perform the test on NO3 and DO and this
morning's pH, pls. post them . Tks
Thank you for giving me the readings on the tank.
The parameters are now better indeed except the phosphate for which you
have taken the necessary measures.
Glad to see that the pH has come down.
I do not want rush you but when you come back and are rested again, pls.
leave me the results of a complete set of tests.
When you have returned, pls. describe the tank to us please.
I guess you will now also raise the photoperiod to 5 hours.
Pls. check the water with your Yellowing test too.
Thank you,
Albert

Albert ,
Test results on July 9th at 9AM are as follows:
pH- 8.30 ORP-426 SG- +.024 DO- >8 mg/L
Ca- 405 P04- 0.1 Nitrate- 3ppm dKH- 8
Jola

Jola,
Seems like all is in order in Jo-Bert Heaven! Those are real nice
results. Bet you the corals look great too.
Albert T.

Albert,
They are looking better than ever!
I'm anxious to just leave it alone for awhile and see what happens with my
hands out of the tank! <G>
Jola

Jola,
Some say that keeping one's hands out of the tank is indeed a good idea.
Give it a shot.
Do not forget to do some testing though <G>
Albert T.

Albert,
I have put the new valve on the skimmer , along with a RIO 2500pump.
The changes have been a great improvement for sure!
The skimmer now produces a -very, very- fine foamy kind of bubbles. They
are really ultra tiny!
Jola

Jola,
Excellent. How is the foam now and what color are you getting ?
Albert T.

Albert,
The junk in the collection cup is a little bit darker.
I'm just now really getting it re-adjusted from swapping stuff on it.
I should be able to tell more about it in a couple of days to give you a
better report on this.
Jola

Jola,
Yes you are right. I did ask the question too soon.
Let us know in a few days.
Albert T.

Albert,
Sounds good, although I did have to do a -small- bit of filing on the end
of the valve that goes into the skimmer body, it is a -hair- bit big.
Jola

Jola,
That valve is not meant to go directly into the skimmer actually. I am
amazed at your ingenuity though! Great job!
Probably works better the way you did than with extra fittings and hose.
You did say that the new venturi makes much finer bubbles though
correct?
Albert T.

Albert,
Yes, for sure, it looks like soap suds in the reaction chamber.
Jola

Jola,
Seems like the skimmer is really working well then.
Let's see what kind of stuff it pulls out and how dark it gets.
Glad to hear it is easy to adjust with the Mazzei venturi as that means
we can sell it with that as an option or as a retrofit for those who
already have one and want a better venturi on the hang-on unit.
Can you still regulate the skimmer ?
Albert T.

Albert,
Yes, the skimmer is just as easy to regulate as it was before I swapped
the pumps.
It just makes a very dense foam compared to what it was doing with the
regular venturi.
Jola

Jola,
The better venturi produces better results and you should see an darker
foam if pollution is present in the water.
Let's see, as you suggest, what we find in a few days.
So the water is not yellowing meaning that the skimmer is working fine.
Yes leave the SuperChem in for the time being. IF things continue the
way they are we may take that out too.
Let's see how all goes along.
Albert T.

Albert,
The lights just went off after being on for 5 hours and the temp raised to
just barely over 82 degrees.
Jola

Jola,
Thanks for letting us know what the lights are doing in terms of heating
the water.
82 is still acceptable. I see no problem with that. Should raise the
evaporation too.
If the temp goes higher though we may need extra fans.
How many fans does the unit have now?
Albert T.

Albert,
The fixture has one fan in the end of it that is half the width of the
fixture.
Then, it has another vent at the opposite end to allow for a cross breeze.
It was hot in the room that the tank is in today. Lets see what the temp
does tomorrow with the room itself cooler.
The reason the room was hot is because the front door was open constantly
today!
Jola

Jola,
Thanks for the explanation on the temp of the tank and the vents. Yes,
pls. check it out tomorrow and make a note and leave a message.
Great job Jola!
Albert T.

Thanks Albert!
I'm sure trying , that's for sure!
BTW , is there -anything- that I can do to quiet these pumps that are in
the sump, at least just a little bit?
They vibrate and make so much noise!
Jola

Jola,
Those pumps should attach to the side with the suction cups provided and
that should reduce the noise quite a bit. Is that how you attached them?
Albert T.

Albert,
No, I just stuck them in the sump with no suckers.
I did solve my problem right after I posted you the problem!
The thing that the suckers attach to sticks up real high in the sump. I
don't like this.
To solve my problem , I took a flat piece of sponge and put under the
pump like a little pillow. It worked and the pump is now quite, it doesn't
vibrate against the glass.
Jola

Jola,
Good move. Make sure you keep the sponge clean though otherwise it will
accumulate dirt that will decompose and lower the ORP.
Albert T.

Albert,
Coralife 10,000K
IMO, these lights are just fantastic! They produce a very natural
appearing light.
The closest thing that I can compare it to, is when you go to the creek
and look through the water at the bottom and you see the different colors of
things and notice the appearance of the animals, plants, and etc.
These bulbs also seem to bring out the true colors of whatever they are
shining on.
In just 9 days of burning these lights, the animals in the tank have shown
a remarkable improvement.
The Elegance completely opens now, and I mean -completely-, it looks
just beautiful!
Everything else in the tank is showing full potential as well.
The GS Mushrooms are multiplying, as is the Cabbage.
Jola

Jola,
When you say multiplying you mean growing and spreading so that you have
more of them?
Albert T.

Albert,
On one of the rocks that has GS Mushrooms on it, there are about 4 little
baby ones, that I did not see a couple of weeks ago.
Jola

Jola :
Breeding mushrooms now hey. Great. You are sure getting the knack for
reef tanks and what to do.
Can you make a pic of it.
Would be nice to document it and pass it on to ESU.
Albert T.

Jola,
What do you see on the Cabbage coral that makes you say it is spreading?
Very interesting indeed.
Albert T.

Albert,
Well, the Cabbage looks so much better than it did a couple of weeks ago!
There is a little baby one at the bottom of the rock that this is on.
BTW, what are the little tiny white stick looking things that this coral
produces?
It makes these things then they blow off of it.
Jola

Jola,
They produce waste and then let go of it and it enters the water and
then eventually should end up being taken out by the skimmer. I guess
that is what you are referring to but without seeing it I cannot be sire.
Albert T.

Albert,
These things look like little sticks that are about 1/4" long.
They are constantly being produced , especially around the base.
Jola

Jola,
After they are produced are they retracted ? The coral has tentacles and
that may very well be what you see.
If you have the time one of these days maybe you should make another
short video of the tank. That would be real interesting for me to see
and maybe we can even take the pics and load them in the computer.
there is equipment around that allows one to do so nowadays.
Albert T.

Albert,
Yes, that would be a good idea! Your bound to be able to get some good
shots, even with me doing the taping. <G>
Jola

Jola,
Baby Cabbage corals. Just great and all that in just a few days with
MH's. Guess you are now convinced that MH's make all the difference. I
as saying so on 1985 but in those days no one wanted to believe me, not
even Julian <G>
Albert T.

Albert,
Well, that baby was there already, but it was just a tiny speck, now it
is already about 1/4"!
And as far a Julian goes, he seems to advocate their use in his book.
I guess he found out you was right about this, too.<G>
Jola

Jola,
After saying for months and months in his reef notes that they were no
good he changed his tune and started recommending them.
Albert T.

Albert,
Well, the difference in Jo-Bert has been like day and night!
Jola

Jola,
Yes I can imagine it has been. Especially with the new lights the
day/night analogy is very appropriate. Got to remember to let ESU know.
Well it is growing and that is the main thing. Keep us posted on what it
is doing.
Albert T.

Albert,
After having the Coralife 10000k bulbs for just these 9 days, I would have
to say my opinion would have to be in favor of MH lighting systems.
After having the floursents for so long, and always having the feeling
that the tank was actually dying because of the animals not showing full
potential and in general getting smaller and smaller, and always reaching
for the light, I really did feel as though the tank was slowly dying.
In just 9 days, and that is not even having a full photo period
established yet, I can truly say I am a strong believer in MH lighting!
If I had it to do over again, I would save up my $$$ to invest in proper
lighting right from the start.
IMO, after seeing how the animals in Jo-Bert have reacted to just this one
change, it is well worth the money.
In essence, the animals "starve" without super strong lights, with the
lights, they have already done a complete turn around!
Even the Bubble is starting to get tiny spots of color where before it was
completely white in that particular area.
Jola

Jola :
Thank you for the descriptions of how you see the results of the Energy
Savers light.
I can only deduce from that that you are really happy with them.
Gee the way you describe the tank I feel like I need to come and see it
for myself.
Albert T.

Albert,
Yes, I am very well pleased indeed! You just come right on over here and
see this tank! You would be impressed to say the least.
I don't have any new additions to speak of , so the tank is still not
really full of stuff , yet, but it does look allot different than it did with
the floursents!
Jola

Jola,
Yes I can imagine that it does look a lot different from reading your
messages, a lot is sure happening. If things keep growing you may not
have to add very much . Let's hope we get some growth on that Leather
too.
Maybe we can start doing some propagation in a few weeks.
Albert

Albert,
Just a reminder on the current lighting schedule.
Today is day 3 of the 5 hour schedule. I have the 2 actinics set to come
on at 11:50 and go off at 5:10. The MH's are set to come on at 12 noon,
and go off at 5pm.
Tomorrow , we go to 6 hours.
Jola

Jola,
That lighting schedule needs one change. It is OK overall but I would
have the actinics come on 30 min. before the Halides come on and go off
30 minutes after the halides go off, not the 10 minutes you have now.
That all the change you need to make.
Yes tomorrow we go to 6 hours of 10 000 K lighting.
Albert T.

Albert,
Okay, what I will do is have the actinics to come on tomorrow at 12 noon,
then the MH's at 12:30, then the actinics will go off at 7pm, and the MH's
will go off at 6:30.
Does this sound okay?
A question about the lights.......
I'm sure when a person purchases a new coral, they don't go through this type
of slow lighting acclimating for 2 weeks.
What does one do?
Jola

Jola,
When a new coral is added to the tank it should be shielded from full
light and gradually introduced to more and more of it.
This is usually done by putting it underneath a ledge and gradually
moving it more into the light.
If no ledge exists you need to make one. Some people wedge plastic sheet
between rocks to shield the corals. They the gradually make it smaller
so the coral gets more light.
The acclimating should be IMO over a period of 8 days.
Albert T.

Albert,
I would like to know why at about 4 1/2 hours of the lights being on, the
pH would be 8.53 and the ORP would be 375?
Do I need to be concerned and intervene?
Jola

Jola,
Photosynthesis and strong light will make the pH go up and as a result
the ORP goes down. The two are inversely related.
You may want to account for all animals though to make sure nothing
died.
As we discussed maybe a snail ... is missing.
If the ORP goes down further I suggest an 8 to 10 gallon water change.
Let me know what gives <G.
Albert T.

Albert,
This am at 5:30 the pH is 8.42 and the ORP is 419.
Don't you think that the pH is a little high again for the am reading?
Jola

Jola,
Yes that is a little high for the morning. Let's do a water change as we
talked about.
Let me know what the numbers are after that.
Ideally the pH should be around 8.2 to 8.25 in the morning.
Albert

Albert,
You can see these "little sticks :" on the inside of the Cabbage Coral
itself, too.
Then, it seems like they "gang up" at the bottom of it, where they blow
off of it. This is a recurring thing. Like a continuous cycle.
Jola

Jola :
Really interesting, do these little sticks disintegrate ?
Albert T.

Albert,
I don't think so. They look very solid.
Jola

Jola
So where do you think the end up. Do you see any under your the rock?
Do any end up in the sump. If so I would like you to send me some so I
can take a good look at them.
Albert T.

Albert,
These things are pretty small, so I wouldn't see them after they leave the
coral, plus they are off white in color.
Do you want me to retrieve you some from the Cabbage directly?
Jola

Jola :
If you can without damaging the coral that would be nice indeed. I
suspect they may be spicules but I would like to take a look at them
anyway as it seems strange that they would continuously produce these
and then eject them.
Albert T.

Albert,
What are spicules? This name does fit these things by the sound of it.
Jola

Jola,
Spicules are little hard spine looking that are part of the internal
structure.
All sponges for instance have spicules.
Albert T.

Albert,
Well, I don't think that is what these are then.
They are only little sticks about 1/4 " long.
Jola

Jola,
I would love for you to be able to get some and send them to me if you
can. This is most interesting.
Try siphoning some off and then ship them to me. I am really interested
in seeing these "things"
Albert T.

Albert,
I did an 8 gallon water change at 5:30pm, 1 hour later, the ORP is 332
and the pH is 8.52.
I think we need to do something about that pH.
Jola

Jola :
Just let the tank rest till tomorrow and let's see what the pH is in the
morning and then again in the evening.
Could you test the dKH for me pls.
Thanks
Albert T.

Albert,
The dKH is 9.
Jola

Jola :
The dKH has gone up a little. As agreed upon tomorrow we will add some
carbonated water.
Albert T.

Albert,
So , you do remember that the dKH was 8. <G>
Now, could this increase be from the water change? Should I check it
again tomorrow ?
Jola

Jola,
Yes pls. check it tonight when you get home and let us know. Tks.
(I did remember it was 8).
Albert T.

Albert,
This am at 5:30, the ORP is 425 and the pH is 8.34.
I will get the carbonated water on my way home from the slave pit. I know
the pH is going to get high again today when the lights come on.
Jola

Jola,
For a morning pH the number is a bit high but certainly nothing to be
concerned about.
Since you have diluted the strength of the KW you are adding the pH may
not go up as high as it has been although it may take a few days for
this to become apparent.
Let's see what the pH is tonight and then decide what to do in regard to
the carbonated water.
Leave me a message with the eve pH before adding anything. Tks.
Do not add the carbonated water until we discuss the pH first.
Albert T.

Albert ,
Here are the test results: July 15th, 1995 7:30AM
pH- 8.28 SG- +024 DO-+8mg/l Ca-420 P04-0.2
Nitrate- 7ppm dKH-8 Temp- +80 degrees
Carbon Yellowing- OK ORP- 404
Jola

Jola :
Except for the nitrates and the PO4 the results are real good.
When is the last time you did a water change.
Is the skimmer working properly? I find the NO3 and PO4 levels high if
it is.
Let me know the color of what is coming out of it pls.
Albert

Albert,
The skimmer is producing a dark beige colored stuff.
I've also got SuperChem in there.
Jola

Jola :
For the time being take the SuperChem out so we can see what the skimmer
does without any chemical filtration in the tank.
What is the pH tonight ?
Albert

Albert,
Well, what about that P04 level being at 0.2?
At 10:30 pm, the pH is 8.4.
Jola

Jola :
Well that is much better. The addition of the weaker KW solution did
solve your too high pH problem it would appear.
Keep adding the lesser strength mix for a few more days pls.
My guess is that it was due to the food you fed from the blender and
that it should disappear in a few days.
If not we will use a small amount of X-Phos. Watch the level pls. tks.
Yes o.2 is high but as days go by that may come down. Why don't you test it
again tonight if you can.
Albert

Albert,
As far as the tiny bubbles are concerned, this afternoon, I will turn
off the skimmer for awhile and see if the bubbles go away. This should
confirm if it is indeed the skimmer or not.
Jola

Jola :
Yes that is indeed a very good idea.
Albert

Albert,
It really does worry me about the amount of tiny bubbles that get in the
tank .
I think that they are being produced from the photosynthesis going on in
there , because I can see these little bubbles in different areas of the tank
coming off of stuff and rising.
I thought that maybe there might be a tiny hole somewhere in the return,
but I checked all that out.
What can I do about this, or is this a good thing? I am under the
impression that tiny air bubbles in the tank are irritating to the animals.
Jola

Jola :
We are going to have to discuss this on the phone because there are too
many possibilities. Once we figure out what the problem is we will post
a message as to what we tried and what the results were.
The bubbles come from the pump sucking in air coming out of the skimmer.
That is the likely scenario.
Let's discuss it on the phone and then see what can be done.
Albert

Albert,
Right now, we are up to 7 hours on the lights. Do we go to 8 today?
So far, the temp at 7 hours has went up to 84 degrees. This is with the
house , itself, at 80 degrees during the heat wave we are having here.
It hit 110 outside yesterday!
Jola

Jola:
Yes go to 8 hours and then let's see what the temp will be.
You may need to get some blue ice packs if the temp goes too high.
If this is the case I will explain what to do.
Albert

Albert,
Well, how high is too high?
Jola

Jola :
I would not let the temp go over 84 for long periods of time.
If that happens I would use the icepacks.
Have a spare or two so you can swap them out. Get the big ones.
They should cool the tank down by at least 3 or so degrees if you put
two of them.
These icepacks can be bought at K-Mart and Wallmart I think.
Albert

Albert,
So far, the pH has went up to 8.53 during the day.
This AM it was at 8.28. This could be due to me mixing the last vat of KW
using only 5 teaspoons of powder compared to 5 ounces that I was using.
Will see what it increases to today and let you know. Should I do
something about this if it goes up to 8.5 again?
Jola

Jola :
The morning reading is OK. What you need to do is now that the KW is not
as strong wait a few days and then take other measurements.
Realize also that with the high evaporation rate more KW gets added so
the effect is higher on the pH.
As this point do not worry about it.
Keep me posted on the AM and PM readings though. Thanks.
Albert

Albert,
What is the deal with the Nitrate on Jo-Bert?
I just done that 8 gallon water change last week.
Jola

Jola :
I could be a result of your feeding of food from the blender yesterday.
Test again in a day or two and let's see where the NO3 is at then.
Albert

Albert,
A few days ago, you told me that ESU wanted my opinion of what the impact
of their lights on Jo-Bert. Well, I have given this much thought and here
is my unbiased opinion.
Since adding this lighting , my corals no longer appear to just merely
exist. They thrive. They show full potential, they are growing and
multiplying.
The appearance of the light to the eye, is that of the sun at high noon
on a clear day. The light looks so real and natural.
Jo-Bert is truly breathtaking to look at , and I feel as though I have
harvested sunlight and installed it over the tank.
There is no doubt , this bulb is a breakthrough for American reef
keepers.
Sincerely,
Jola L. James
Jo-Bert Project 1995

I feel as though I have harvested sunlight and installed it over the tank.

Albert ,
Went to Fishey Business today and got some new additions for Jo-Bert.
I got 2 Bi-Colored Blennies, 1 Green Clown Goby, and 1 Trumpet Coral.
I was not going to get any Corals, but this was such a nice piece of
Trumpet Coral that I could not resist!
So far , the Trumpet is really doing great!
The 2 Blennies are doing great as is the GC Goby.
The only thing that does worry me is that the GC Goby wants to live in the
Elegance and wants to make it his house!
I am afraid that the Elegance will sting it and eat it.
I am still working on making those tiny air bubbles stop.
I switched the RIO 2100 that I was using for the return from the sump back
to the tank.
I switched it back to the Hagan 802 that I was previously using.
This did help a little bit. I don't know why , but it did.
I have put a sponge on the end of the skimmer where water is returned to
the sump. That helped a little bit.
There is nothing left that I know to do. There are still tiny bubbles in
the water.
The only other thing that I can do , that I can think of , is change the
venturi back the way it was instead of using the Mazzei.
Do you have any ideas? Do others have the same problem with tiny air
bubbles?
Jola

Jola :
The tiny air bubbles must come from the skimmer output and are drawn
into the pump that returns the water to the tank.
The sponge may help.
Otherwise we will have to find another way.
Usually letting the water coming out of the skimmer fall onto a sponge
solves the problem though.
Let me know how things work out
Albert

Albert,
The bubbles are much better today, I will put a sponge under the return and
see if this completely solves the problem and let you know.
There is -allot- of bubbles being produced by the overflow tube that is
down in the sump that comes from the tank also.
Jola

Jola :
Two problems here: bubbles from the skimmer and bubbles from the tank
return.
The latter occurs when air and water are drawn down to the sump at the
same time. Try to restrict the overflow on the downside just slightly so
less air or no air is coming down and make sure the return is submersed.
When under the water it will not draw bubbles into the water at the same
time.
You can restrict the downflow by putting a little piece of acrylic rod
or something similar in it so the water goes down a little slower thus
not drawing air in at the same time. You have to do this though when you
can watch what is going on.
You want to make sure you do not restrict it too much or the tank could
overflow.
Yes that is a good way to eliminate the bubbles coming out of the
skimmer return. A sponge, a piece of styrofoam on which the water drops
first (rather than directly into the sump's water) all help in reducing
bubbles entering the water in the sump.
With no or less bubbles in the sump, the other pump that returns water
to the tank cannot suck them in and break them up into even finer
bubbles.
Try reducing the downflow tube as explained in the other message to see
it that alleviates your problem further.
So you went shopping for fish! Good for you. I do not know what to tell
you about the Goby that goes in the Elegance. There really is no way to
prevent it from doing so. If it gets stung it may learn a lesson, or it
may very well learn its final lesson too. There is IME nothing you can
do at this point except for hoping the Goby will decide to get out of
the Elegance.
Where did you buy the fish BTW ?
Albert

Albert,
I got them at Fishey Business in Nashville. Really great store!
Today, the GC Goby is still happy in the Elegance! Leave it to me to
have a very unusual fish!
Like Stupid and AH!
Jola

Jola:
Now that we are into a few months of running the tank, and all seems
well indeed, except for some minor things, do you feel you are now
sufficiently proficient to run the tank on your own.
The reason I am asking is to determine for how long we need to continue
messaging every day or nearly every day on the tank, as opposed to
messaging only when something out of he ordinary happens.
This will determine how many more files we put in the library.
Thank you for giving a candid answer.
An Elegance Goby, that's a new one for me!
Well if he survives why not after all.
Strange it is indeed. I have seen this behavior with clownfish but not
really with many other fish (except maybe Damsels or Demoiselles as the
French call them -- sounds so much nicer --)
Albert

Albert,
Well, my candid answer at this point, as I am looking at an ORP of 295,
I would have to say "no". Maybe in a couple of weeks, I will be able to cut
the apron strings! <G>
Jola

Jola :
thanks for your candid answer. The low ORP (not so low though) is probably due
to water change, adding animals, feeding, maybe a snail that died or any
combination of all of the above.
Watch the trend. That is what counts. Tomorrow if all is well it should be
higher!
I do not mind a few more weeks at all.
Albert

Albert,
Thank you! I am not ready to graduate yet! <G>
Jola

Jola :
I will keep helping you for sure but I feel that you have the tank
pretty much under control.
Albert

Jola :
How is the bubble problem today ?
Albert

Albert,
The bubbles are better, but still quite a few in there.
Jola

Jola "
Try the things I suggested to you on the phone and let's see what
happens.
Try the things I suggested to you on the phone and let's see what
happens.
Did you solve the problem of bubbles coming out of the skimmer ?
Albert

Albert,
No, if I put a sponge on the return from the skimmer to the sump, it makes
the skimmer overflow in just a short time.
There has to be another solution than this for the skimmer .
They are coming from the sump which is coming from the skimmer and the tank
return from the overflow box.
I have tried all the suggestions, and still have the skimmer off.
The ORP this AM is 373 after the skimmer has been off all night.
When I get home from the Pit, we will see if the bubbles are completely
gone , this will tell us for sure if it is indeed the skimmer that is causing
the problem.
Jola

Jola,
Have you considered a divider in the sump between where the overflow and
skimmer empties and the return pump is. I am thinking of a solid divider that
the water would have to flow under.
Just a thought.
Dave

Dave,
Yes, I have thought about that and if the Micron Cartridges are not going
to work , I am going to try that and Albert's styrofoam theory too.
I -will- stop them bubbles! <G>
Jola

Jola :
You cannot restrict the outflow of the FF. It has to be free flowing on
the styro or sponge.
Albert

Jola,
I am using a combination of the two methods. I have a piece of 2" white styro
that fits tightly between the lip of the sump, where the skimmer sits. The
other end is wedged in the bottom corner. This helps hold the blue pad on too.
I have the overflow hose tucked in the opening of the pad too. Works real
well.
Try it you'll like it.
Dave

Dave,
Well, I do wish I could see this, I am having a hard time picturing this
in my mind.
I am still fighting with this problem!
Jola

Jola,
Check your mail. Otherwise, here is my attempt at ASCII art....

|\\ |
| \\ |
| \\ |
| \\ |
| \\ |
| \\ |
| \\|
__________

The diag. lines would be the styro. it is wedged under the skimmer. The blue
tube pad is around the skimmer bracket and lays on the styro. I have my
overflow outlet stuck inside the blue pad so all the water returns to the sump
via the styro and mesh.
FWIW,
Dave

Dave,
Good job for sure! I am going to try this today. Will let you know what
happens . Thanks!
Jola

Jola :
Do not attach the sponge to the outlet of the skimmer. Just let the
water flow onto the sponge from a short distance, that way the skimmer
cannot back up and overflow.
Float the sponge in the water and keep it stationary in some manner so
it does not move away. The distance between the outflow from the skimmer
and the sponge need not be more than .5 inches.
Albert

Albert,
I turned off the skimmer about 30 minutes ago to see if that would take
care of the rest of the bubbles in the water.
They have just about all got out of there.
If I put a sponge on the return to the sump, of the skimmer, it clogs
up by the next day, and overflows the skimmer.
I have the skimmer adjusted to where I have to empty it daily, and the
junk in the cup is sorta tan/ beige.
Should I put the RIO 2100 back on there instead of running the RIO 2500?
Or, should I swap back to the regular venturi? I don't know what else to do.
What would happen with no skimmer?
Jola

Jola,
I used one of the Magnum "right size" blue filter tubes on my skimmer. It
stretches just enough to be placed on the whole bracket. Seems to work very
well. Of course I don't have anything in the tank yet.
Dave

Jola :
Flow the water from the skimmer on a piece of styro and see if that
helps.
Let me know.
For the time being do not change the pump or the venturi.
Albert

Albert,
What kind of styrofoam are you referring to? Are you talking about the
white kind that you get in craft stores and you can break it and it makes
these little crumbs?
Jola

Jola :
If you use styrofoam, which has the advantage of not needing cleaning
you need a piece that is flat and about .5 inches thick. If you have
fish styros there you can cut it out of one of the lids for instance.
Albert

Dave,
Hey Folks!!!
I have tried all kinds of sponges in all kinds of ways to no avail!
Last night I have tried yet something else involving the Magnum Micron
Cartridges, but I wont know if it is effective until this PM.
Will let you know if it works, and if it does , how I have applied them.
See Ya!!!
Jola

Albert,
So far, the bubbles are much better, but I still haven't got it solved
completely, -yet- ! <G>
Jola

Jola,
Great. how did you do it?
Did you use the styro? A larger sump would of course help a great deal
too.
Less chance of bubbles getting into the pump.
Albert

Albert,,
No, the Magnum Cartridges did make the problem better, but I am looking
for a solution.
Will try the styro today.
Jola

Jola,
Yes I figured they would not.
Let me know how the styro works out.
Albert

Albert,
It did not work, I've tried applying the styrofoam in lots of different
ways, too.
Nothing worked. What else to try?
Jola

Jola :
How long did you observe it when you placed the styro? I will need to
talk to you about this in the phone I think.
I will try and call later today else in the AM.
Albert

Jola :
If the styro did not work and the sponge did not then we need to come up
with some other solution.
The thing that bothers me in all of this is that it suddenly started. We
did not have this problem before.
Do you have any idea what you changed to the system that suddenly made
this happen.
Albert

Albert,
The lights were the only change. This is when the bubbles started. Could
just be a coincidence.
Jola

Jola :
If that is when the bubbles started then we cannot change anything to
the fact that the are there, the only thing we +can+ do is to find a
way to prevent them from getting into the pump that returns water to the
tank.
How large is the piece of styro you are now using? May be making it
larger is going to help.
Have you eliminated the bubbles coming down from the tank through the
overflow?
Are you sure that this did not start when you changed to the RIO 2500?
Let delve into this a little deeper and see what we can come up with.
The small sump is not helping of course but we have already determined
that we cannot change its size.
Albert

Albert,
The styrofoam fits real tightly across the sump , from front to back, like
a damn.
Then I angled it so that the water would go over the top of the styrofoam
just enough to keep the pumps with about 1" water over the top of them.
Jola

Jola :
Thanks for explaining how you put the styro in. The question is though
did it stop the bubbles from getting into the pump that returns water to
the aquarium >
If not you need to make sure that no bubbles enter the sump from the
overflow, using some floss or narrowing the downflow in the back box.
Try that and let me know what happens.
Albert

Albert,
I'm going to try some filter floss in the overflow box inside the tank.
Will let you know what affect this has.
Jola

Jola,
Yes pls. do and let me know what that does. IMO though the real solution
lies in the back box of the overflow as explained in other messages.
Try that out and let me know what happens.
Albert

Albert,
I have all but made the tank overflow in restricting the water going down
through the tube in the back, didn't work.
I have put floss in the overflow box inside the tank, didn't work.
I have put floss in the overflow box and in the back box, that didn't do
anything to the bubbles coming out the other end of the hose that is in the
sump, either!
I think I will just drown myself in the tank and end my misery over
this!<G>
Jola

Jola :
ROFL indeed, no need to go quite that far. The tank would overflow
anyway and when your lungs empty there would be plenty of bubbles
again. Not productive at all <G>
I need to think about this and see what else I can come up with. This is
now bothering me too since the methods I have given you so far usually
help solve the problem.
In your case they seem not to.
I will give this some more thought and get back to you.
Do not despair you had reduced it to a minimum so I guess it is not as
bad as it used to be (at least some progress).
I will need to play around with a similar overflow to figure out a way
to do this.
Give me few days OK
Albert

Albert,
Well good luck!!!! It is driving me crazy! Of course that is a short
trip!<G>
Jola

Jola :
Any improvement since the last changes you made ?
You did determine that when you stop the skimmer the bubble stop right?
Albert

Albert,
Yes, I did, which would put the photosynthesis theory out of the
question.
But the whole sump system ( skimmer and overflow) has to be shut down to
eliminate the whole problem 100%, just turning off the skimmer does not solve
it.
Jola

Jola :
It probably does not because the bubbles are still coming down from the
overflow box (surface skimmer too).
It could also be a combination of the two.
I cannot figure it out from here though.
The key is to change the flow of both in such a way that no bubbles are
dragged into the sump
Albert

Albert,
Yes, I feel that would work, but it is like they are picking up the
bubbles inside the tube itself.
The tube does not completely fill with water , because it is 1 1/2 " in
diameter. It is water and air inside the tube, and it is mixing.
I wonder..................If I was to incorporate a reducer fitting on the
end of the PVC inside the box on the back of the tank that would allow me to
use smaller pipe going to the sump that would completely fill with water,
then the water inside the tube would not be able to mix with air.
What do you think? I will have to get the stuff at the hardware store tomorrow.

Jola

Jola,
Yes, get both the 1.5 to 1 and the 1.5 to .75 so you do not have to make
two trips in case the 1.5 to 1 does not work (just a suggestion).
What I have been trying to say about reducing the downflow is what you
explain.
Use a 1 inch bushing first and if that does not work try 1 1/2 to 3/4
Let me know what happens.
Regular plumbing supply places should have the slip by slip bushings
BTW. Do not use the inside threaded ones.
Albert

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