Subject: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SKIMMER: FAQ REWRITE
From: [email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL)
Date: 17 Jan 1995 22:51:02 GMT
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria

--

**************SUMMARY of SKIMMER FAQ***************
revised 11/14/96

What follows is a collection of threads about skimmers from the
*.aquaria groups. 

Skimmer brand/model             Liked         Disliked
========================================================
The Beast                         3		   1 
Red Sea                          11 		   4
Amiricle Hurricane 18 in.         4                1
Amiricle SeaReef                  2                2
Sanders-WT350                     2		   2
Sanders AH 400                    1
SeaSystems 24 in.                 1 		   1
Top Fathom                        9		   1
Clearly Superior                                   1
Emperor Aquatics-1B               1                2
Emperor Aquatics		  2
Home made                                          1
Sanders Piccolo					   1
Sanders WT 250			  2
ETS				  5		   1
Oceanic 		  	  3		   3	
Visijet Skimmer			  1		   3
Klaes                             1
Biozone 90101			  1
Coralife Super Skimmer II         1
Tunze                             5
US Aquarium Venturi               1
AES				  1
Pro Twin					   4
Visitherm					   1
Sea Quest			  1
Lee					  	   1
Turbo Floater			  4
=========================================================

NOTE: these comments should be taken lightly and only used as a
minimal source of info since the opinions are based on particular
applications. They are also a summary based on someone else's views of
the threads below. While a skimmer may be liked it may not be
appropriate for your setup. Thus PLEASE read the posts that follow.

*********************************************************************

Once again I am collecting info for the revised FAQ/archive. I am
interested in all information you can provide on skimmers. Please
include dimensions, tank size, counter or co-current, air stone or
venturi (as well as brands of water and air pumps), brand name,
approximate cost and how it compares to other skimmers you are
familiar with and finally whether you would buy it again. All other
comments are of course welcome. Please post (email is ok too).
THANKS!!!

				JEFF PFOHL
				E-MAIL: [email-masked]
				PHONE : (904) 644-1598  work
					(904) 224-0707  home
					(904) 644-9848  fax

"You don't perform CPR on someone who is alive!"
LEARN CPR.. YOU MAY BE ABLE TO SAVE A LIFE SOMEDAY

************************************************************************

From: [email-masked]:

I really like my Top Fathom a lot (except that it does not fit under
the tank but what tank does have room for a 5' skimmer underneath?)
Whether it is the best or not is a matter of opinion. I'm pleased with
it and feel I received my $$ worth. Some others seem to like DIY or
the Red Sea skimmers. There are others too. Someone on the net
recommended that I buy a TF and I'm grateful that he did. As a matter
of fact everyone I know of who owns one is pleased with its
performance. I am using an LG 4 MDQ-SC pump. TF recommends which pumps
work best on their skimmers.  Trust them as I think they are probably
right. I originall had an Eheim 1060. It worked but I now realize,
after using the LG 4, that it was inadequate. I used the Eheim b/c I
had originally planned on using a submersible pump and it fit the
bill. After realizing the size of the skimmer and the logistics of
hooking it up (due to tank placement which I could not change) I had
to use the Eheim out of water anyways.  All are about the same price.

For the $$ probably TF is one of the best. The Red Sea is smaller in
size and probably can fit under the tank. It claims to be able to
handle big tanks but since I have never seen one I cannot support or
refute this claim. If you are rich then you can find much more
expensive skimmers (like the Marine Technical concepts $800 skimmer) I
do not know if it is that much better. I bought my TF on sale from a
place that was just opening. It cost about $275, less than TF sells
retail.  I don't recall how much they are retail. Perhaps soneone on
the net has a TF connection.  Post and ask if anyone knows of
somewhere that sells TF cheaper than TF does. You may get lucky. You
may also want to consider the new ETS skimmers for around $500. Quite
expensive IMO but if they are as good as everyone claims are they
definitely worth the money if you are serious about your reef.
Finally I would definitely go with a venturi design. Although they
normally cost more to operate due to the big water pump that is
required they are less maintence and thus more consistent in their
performance.

******************************************************************

From [email-masked]:

I used to have a SeaSystems 24" counter current air stone driven
skimmer that I truly loved!!! (I only got rid of it to buy a huge 6'
skimmer for my 75 gal) It uses a 301 PH and a  medium sized air pump
(I used one side of an old Whisper 700) It pulled out a lot of gunk
and was easy to tune AND stayed tuned properly (no constant
adjustments) It should cost you less than $100. If you have trouble
finding one the phone number is 305-941-3792 for you to call
the company directly (they only sell wholesale but will give you a
list of who carries their skimmers) 

*****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Scott Hodges)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SKIMMER: FAQ REWRITE
Date: 17 Jan 1995 21:29:29 -0500

Jeff, 

Nice to hear from another 'Nole.....

I have a Beast from D&D.  Not your average skimmer, but perfect for putting
under your tank.  It's about 26"x5", air driven by two limewood stones.
No cup!  Overflow goes directly into a 1 gallon jug.  Air powered by both 
sides of a Supra 4.  Water comes from about 10% of a 3-MDQ-SC. Easy to set up. 
4 years running.  Never a problem.  Has an up/down/up (co and counter current)
water flow.  Photo in TFP catolog.

Also have an Amiricle Hurricane.  Venturi driven.  Moved alot of water with 
a Hagen 802 powerhead.  Sits IN sump.  About 20" by 4".  Replaced with Beast.

Hope this helps!

Scott Hodges  [email-masked]

*********************************************************************************

John Sprague ([email-masked]) wrote:
: >I need to get some input on a skimmer that would support a 180 - 220 gal reef 
: >with a 50mg ozoner and a pressureized reactor.   Are store bought  skimmers 
: >signifigantly better than home made ?

: I would highly reccomend the Red Sea fish pHarm Berlin Skimmer.  It is a 
: triple pass venturi design rated to 250 gallons and is extremely efficient.  I 
: have heard of a couple of stores that use and sell only these.  It is ozone 
: safe and has a carbon air filter area built in.  It can be used inside or 
: outside your sump and totally dissasembles for cleaning.  I was unable to 
: compare with very many other skimmers when I got mine so I can't tell you how 
: it rates next to some others, but it has performed well above my expectations. 
:  I got mine for $170.

I agree. My Berlin skimmer pulls the blackest gunk out of my tank. I haven't
run the diatom filter in over a month and the water looks crystal clear. I
power mine with a Little Giant MDQ3 pump. The pump is very quiet. I can't 
hear it over the venturi from the skimmer and that noise is not loud either.

Rich Holloway
[email-masked]

***************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Re: venturi skimmers
Reply-To: [email-masked]
Date: Tue, 17 Jan 1995 16:15:09 GMT

The Red Sea skimmer is great for O3.  It has a relly cool carbon camber built
onto the collection cup.  No extra O3 kit

Ron

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] (Scott Hodges) writes:
>jo-jo ([email-masked]) wrote:
>> I need to get some input on a skimmer that would support a 180 - 220 gal reef 
>> with a 50mg ozoner and a pressureized reactor.   Are store bought  skimmers 
>> signifigantly better than home made ?
>
>>       ,///:,    ,/                                             ,///:,    ,/
>>   o::::::;;///     [email-masked]     o::::::::;;///   
>> >:::::::::;;\\\                                        >:::::::::;;\\\
>>       '''\\\'      \                                             '''\\\'      \
>
>Jo-jo,
>
>Tough question.  I've gone through a few finicky skimmers, but finally
>went all out and bought a "Beast" from D & D Marine Enterprises.  It's a sump
>return design, using a Supra 4 air pump.  You actually use a one gallon
>jug as your overflow! It stands about 28" tall and is about 6" around
>(plus fittings), so be sure you have room.   
>I would recommend one of these to anybody.  The name is appropriate.
>D&D also has ozone kits for all teir skimmers. 
>
>On the homemade side, I have a few friends that tried to make them, but they
>all gave up and bought instead.  If you want a clear one, you might end up
>spending as much money on the parts (and mistakes) as you would buying.  
>
>I got my Beast from That Fish Place.
>
>Hope this helps!
>
>Scott Hodges    [email-masked]
>

************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (DAVIS PATRICK W)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SKIMMER: FAQ REWRITE
Date: 18 Jan 1995 20:43:24 GMT

Good idea Jeff! Recently I have been wondering if it would be advantageous 
to upgrade my skimmer, but I have nothing to compare it to. I have a 
small red algae problem that flared up when my skimmer wasn't working 
properly for about a week. Maybe upgrading the skimmer will correct it.

I have a 70 gallon reef. The skimmer is an Amiracle Hurricane, which is a 
18" counter-current venturi rated for a 150 gallon tank. It is powered by a 
Rio 2100 (rated at ~500g/h with a 1 foot head- but I don't believe it). 
The skimmer does have to sit in the sump because there are small leaks.

How well was it made? Cheaply- like I said, it leaks slightly. It is made 
of blue acrylic, and they didn't even bother to flame polish the cuts.

How easy is it to set up? Very- if you have lots of space in your sump. I 
don't, so it is a struggle every time I need to empty the top.

How well does it keep adjusted? Pretty well. The water level is adjusted 
by the water output, so that is stable if your output is higher than your 
sump level (but not in my case at first). The bubble size is easy to 
adjust, but in my case difficult to stay stable. The venturi valve is 
connected to a rubber tubing with a screw type valve on the end of it- 
this allows air in outside of the sump. The venturi valve needs to be 
soaked about once a month in HCl. I think my problem is with the air 
screw valve, which is why I can't keep it stable for 24 hours. I will 
inadvertently drop the screw valve into the sump every time I put the top 
back on. This causes a small amount of salt water to get in it, which 
clogs it up to some degree. I think a longer rubber tube will take care 
of this.

How well does it work? It works like I think it is supposed to. When the 
tank was first set up, the cup had to be emptied once a day, now I empty 
it once a week. It pulls out a very dark smelly liquid when adjusted 
correctly. Being the only skimmer I have owned, I can't compare it to any 
other brands. My dilemma now is if I should invest in larger 5' skimmer, 
or will it not work any better?

Pat 
************************************************************************

From [email-masked] Fri Jan 20 15:57:55 1995
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 11:27:51 -0800
From: Michael Brown <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL)
Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SKIMMER: FAQ REWRITE

Jeff, If your putting together a list of comments on skimmers, you
might want to add a section on companies to avoid...And I have the
first entry....Clearly Superior aquarium products in Fullerton
California.  The advertised in FAMA up until Jan 1995, when their add
was pulled because of customer complaints to FAMA.  What they do is
tell you about this great skimmer they have and list off great specs
at a great price.  When the skimmer comes, it is nothing like what you
were promised.  In my case, it was about 30% shorter than promised and
missing parts.  When you return it, that's the last you ever see of
the skimmer or your money.  The only sell COD cash, so you can't go
through your credit card company.  Great scam. In personal
communications with others in this newsgroup, the money scammed totals
over $1000; only from *.aquaria over the last few months!  I can't
imagine what their total take was before FAMA pulled to plug.

While most people won't see their add anymore, I would like to warn
people who are looking through last years FAMA about this company. I'm
also concerned that FAMA,  or some other mag might start running their
adds again, allowing them to prey on a new batch of unknowing comsumers. 

Thanks for listening... Mike

--
Michael Brown		INTERNET: [email-masked]
543-5219		UUCP:	  uw-beaver!atmos.washington.edu!mika
Dept of Atmospheric Sciences, AK-40
University of Washington

*************************************************************************

From [email-masked] Sun Jan 22 01:15:57 1995
Date: Sat, 21 Jan 1995 17:32:42 -0500
From: [email-masked]
To: JEFF PFOHL <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SKIMMER: FAQ REWRITE

The Beast is the best skimmer I've used.   It's pretty simple to set up.  It's 
also very well made.  The only problem I have with it is that it's a little 
difficult to breakdown to get the airstones out because everything screws 
together.  Fortunately, I only have to do this every 4 months or so.

Hope this helps.  Let me know if you want more specifics.

Scott Hodges

*************************************************************************

From: [email-masked]
Newsgroups: sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: Hang-on-tank skimmers
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 10:27:30

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (DAVE ROSSELL) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (DAVE ROSSELL)
>Subject: Hang-on-tank skimmers
>Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 18:33:00 GMT

>I've read with great interest the recent postings about these big, expensive,
>efficient sump skimmers.  I'm thinking of getting a skimmer for my 20L salts
>tank, but it has to hang on the tank.  I also (unfortunately) have a $60 price
>cap (grad student and aquarium hobbyist don't mix).  I've been looking at the
>VisiJet skimmer, the Amiricle Sea Reef and the Coralife Super Skimmer series.

>Are these inexpensive skimmers worthwhile, or should I just hold off and save
>my pennies?  Are any of them capable of handling a 55 g. tank (I hope to
>upgrade someday)?

I would add the Sanders hang in the tank to your list. I have the WT350 on my 
20 and really like it.  It is a countercurrent design (unlike Coralife).  I 
also had an Amiracle Sea Reef but it leaked and it was a pain to clean the 
cup (wingnuts).  Some one else who posts regularly likes his however.  Only 
the sea reef 22" skimmer of the ones you mention is really capable of doing 
anything for a larger tank.  I am still looking for a replacement for mine 
since countercurrent airstone driven skimmers are getting harder and harder to 
find.  Its a venturi world out there.

Mike Moore, Tempe AZ

**************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Noel noe)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria,sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SKIMMER: FAQ REWRITE
Date: 22 Jan 1995 21:34:38 -0500

Hi,

Novel Idea!  I just finished setting up an Emperor Aquatics Series 1B 
venturi protein skimmer.  The hang on the tank model.  It's being fed by
an Ehiem 1250 (externally).

This is the second one.  When I recieved the first one I sent it back
after 24 hours in operation because it leaked on to my rug.  The venturi
water inlet housing had cracked during transit.  I called the company and
sent it back.  Got in touch with "Steve", the owner of "EA". He suggested
that the setup I was using was ok.  The instructions that came with the
first skimmer suggested a pump of at least 250 gph @ 5ft. of head.  I
figured the Ehiem 1250 would fit the bill; it's rated for 317 gph.  The
second skimmer came with a page entitled "Protein Skimmer Trouble Shooting
Guide" and lo and behold the suggestion is there that my pump is
inadequate.  It lists five pumps and mine ain't on it.  Sure do wish I had
that "Trouble Shooting Guide" before I bought the pump.

*************************************************************************

From [email-masked] Tue Jan 24 15:04:41 1995
Date: Tue, 24 Jan 1995 10:00:05 -0800
From: [email-masked] (Bruce Hallman)
To: [email-masked]
Subject: My contribution to the skimmer FAQ

Jeff, 

Please accept my praise for your efforts spent on assembling a skimmer FAQ for 
the good of the group.

When I read it, I said to myself, "I wish this was summarized so I could read it 
at a glance".  I then put together a summary.  You may consider posting the 
summary at the top of the thread, and then people can have a quick overview, and 
then get a detailed look by reading on.  In a couple cases, the review was luke 
warm, and I used my judgement to call it a "liked" or "disliked" review.

-----beginning----

Skimmer brand/model             Liked         Disliked
========================================================
The Beast                         3 
Red Sea                           2 
Amiricle Hurricane 18 in.         1 
Amiricle SeaReef                  2                2
Sanders-WT350                     1 
SeaSystems 24 in.                 1 
Top Fathom                        1 
Clearly Superior                                   1
Emperor Aquatics-1B                                2
Home made                                          1
Sanders Piccolo					   1
Sanders WT 250			  1
ETS				  1
Oceanic 6		  	  1
Visijet Skimmer					   1
=========================================================
----end-----

 '     *   . .      '           +         `  .        ) *     ' bruce hallman
 . +   .        ,    * ' .      '     . `     . *     .   [email-masked]
. _/_/' _/_/_/  _/  _/_/  '   URL ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/de/deadfish/df.htm

*********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Phil Henderson)
Subject: Re: TELL ME ABOUT YOUR SKIMMER: FAQ REWRITE
Date: 24 Jan 1995 23:19:22 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Noel noe)
wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> Novel Idea!  I just finished setting up an Emperor Aquatics Series 1B 
> venturi protein skimmer.  The hang on the tank model.  It's being fed by
> an Ehiem 1250 (externally).
> 
> This is the second one. 
> 
> If you'd like you can e-mail me at [email-masked]
> 
> Thanks :(

The complaint I heard obout the Emperor Aquatics skimmers was from a dealer
who tried one out before selling it. He sent it back to the company because
they don't have a collection cup and the gunk that normally collects at the
top of the collection tube in a normal skimmer tends to clog the drain in a
EA skimmer and they are a pain to clean. 
-- 
Phil Henderson
Brea, Ca
[email-masked]

From: "colin (c.w.) kemp" <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Subject:  Name of My skimmer 
Return-Receipt-To: [email-masked]

Hi Jeff,

I just routed through my storage and found the box for my skimmer.
The name is:

        Sander Aquarientechnik
        EiwieB-Abschaumer  Ozonreaktor (Protein Skimmer)
        TYP: Piccolo

So my (probably incorrect) interpretation of this is:

        Company : Sander 
        Model   : Piccolo
        Type    : Protein Skimmer

Below is the original cocos:

[...]

Hi Jeff,

Great idea. I would like to ask that you put a little bit of
information on the affect of the diameter of the skimmer into the FAQ
if you get the chance.  There is a good article relating to this topic
in 'Aquarium Fish' January '95 issue I believe. Also can you mention 
that they are called foam fractionators in some parts of the world?

Now on to my skimmer:

        - In tank, counter-current skimmer.
        - 6" chamber, 3" Collection Cup
        - Driven solely by an air-stone, powered by a Optima Pump
          which is important since the water level in the skimmer/tank
          fluctuates affecting performance and the Optima Air flow is
          adjustable.
        - German made, no idea of the name
        - $50CDN including two airstones and mounting bracket

Pictorially:
          _
         | |__________________
        |      |        |     |
        |                     |
        |        |    |       |
        |        |    |       |
        |       /      \      |  
        |      /        \     | O
        -----------------------O 
              ||        ||    O
              |          |    O
              |          |    O
              |          |    O
wwwwwwwwwwwwww|wwwwwwwwww|wwwwOwwwwwwwwwwww<--- Waterline
              |          |    O 
              |          |    O
              |          |   O
              |          |  O
              |          | O
              |          |O
              |          O
              |         O|  
              |      /\O |
              |     /  \ |
              |    /   / |
                  /   /
                  \  / 
                   \/

PROs:
        1. Small and relatively cheap
        2. Adequate for small aquariums
        3. No leak or drainage problems since it sits in tank
        4. VERY easy to clean
        5. Easy to tune but takes about three days to get the right
           water level and air flow rate

CONs: 
        1. Water level of tank affects skimmer performance which
           translates into constant tuning problems        
        2. Salt-mist can spray out of the upper vent on occasion
           making a mess if left long enough (my solution was to
           run some 1/2" airline from the vent back into my hang on
           back filter.
        3. Not exteremly efficient.
        4. My royal gramma was 'investigating' the inside of the tube
           one day during maintenance unbeknownst to me. When I turned
           the air pump back on I had quite the starled fish!  Oooops!

Comments:

This is a small skimmer (about as small as they come).  It was perfect
for my 20 Gallon tank but when I moved it to my 35Gallon it still
produced sludge but did not seem to have any great affect on the tank.
My one complaint is that the perfomance of the skimmer degrades as the
water level lowers an it requires more air to keep up the correct
amount of foam.  So the two solutions to this are to have an
adjustable air flow air pump, or the more obvious one which is to top
up the water level every day.  

Because of this I am currently in the process of building (DIY) a 3
foot (3" diameter) outside tank, counter current, air stone and power
head driven, skimmer. I have priced it out at around $45CDN using
acrylic tubing and silicone, and I plan on building it this weekend.

Would I buy this skimmer again? No. Although it does a fine job and
has no leakage potential since it is in tank, I would be able to build
this skimmer for about $15CDN all inclusive.  However I had to buy
this since even after reading the current FAQs I really did not
understand how protein skimmers/foam fractionators worked.

In summary, I would say that this is the skimmer for people who are
really unsure if they need a skimmer or not.  It will convince them it
was a great buy after the first week of operation.  I would however
recommend this for fish-only systems.

======================================================================
Colin Kemp           | "Why must hailstones always be the size of  
[email-masked]         |  something else?"  -- George Carlin

From [email-masked] Thu Jan 26 15:28:13 1995
To: [email-masked] (Jeff Pfohl)
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 95 8:48:18 EST

I probably mentioned to you that I was pretty much sold on the Red
Sea skimmer. However, I was exchanging e-mail with Craig recently
and he mentioned a skimmer by ETS (I think, I'll check if you want)
that kicked MTC ass in a head-to-head competition!! MTC goes for $800
while ETS goes for $500. Believe it or not, I've been considering
the ETS skimmer. I have a cyanobacteria bloom -- disgusting. I
think it's precipitated by some snails dying in the tank and my not
getting them out right away. Also, I had been feeding the SUnflower
coral regularly (nauplii). I've stopped feeding the coral and the
snails have stopped dying since I removed the green brittle star.
However, the cyanobacteria is still there. You know, that brittle
star was responsible for the deaths of 7 turbo grazers! I only
caught him killing one of them but I'm convinced that he killed
the others during the night. I ought to remove his arms, one at
a time! You're probably wondering why I left him in so long. Well,
Curt Fiedler, whom I respect very much, claimed that the brittle
stars couldn't be killing the snails. He and I were probably talking
about 2 different creatures.

-- 
Brian
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Malloy                   Internet:  [email-masked]
Dept. of Computer Science         Telephone:  US (803) 656-0808
Clemson University                      Fax:  US (803) 656-0145

From [email-masked] Fri Jan 27 14:05:10 1995
From: Wilson Angerson <[email-masked]>
Subject: Skimmer FAQ
To: [email-masked] (Jeff Pfohl)

Jeff,

Almost forgot to add my bit. I'm using a Sander WT250 (counter-current
airstone) in an 8 gal reef with a 5 gal sump. It works just fine
considering it's only got 9" depth of water to sit in, takes out quite a
lot of goo and is very easy to empty and clean. It's about the only
thing that will fit in my system, which is built into a bookshelf. I've
had no opportunity to compare it with anything else.

Wilson

******************************************************************

From [email-masked] Fri Jan 27 23:10:48 1995
From: "Brian Landers" <[email-masked]>
Date: Fri, 27 Jan 1995 16:46:36 -0600

I have the Amiracle Sea Reef Protein Skimmer.  It's 24" (if I remember
correctly).  It a counter-current hang on the back airstone driven skimmer.
I use a Supra 4 air pump - it's too big of a pump.  I bleed off part of the
air from the pump.  It comes with a carbon container that hangs on the
tank to run the return water through.
I don't like the plastic wing nuts and screws that hold the collection cup
on, but I don't take the skimmer apart that often.  The meeting place of
the two pieces has a salt build up on it, but it doesn't leak.
The level adjustment depends on the water level in the tank.  As long as
you keep the water level constant, adjustments don't need to be made that
often.  I have the collection cup connected to a tube that goes into a
gallon milk jug.

This is my first skimmer, so I can't give a good assessment on how well it
performs compared to anything else.

Brian Landers

***********************************************************************

From: Steve Newell <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: OCEANIC EQUIPMENT
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 1995 21:13:50 -0800

Hi Dave : 
         I have 2 Oceanic #6 protein skimmers running on my 90 gallon
reef tank and they are great. The only problem I have is that one of
them plugs up periodically with salt in the venture valve but all I
do is unplug it using a piece of twisted wire like a pipe cleaner.
I've read that if you can put you're skimmers on a timer that can be
turned off and on several times per day that it will not allow the
venture valves to plug up because the water will back up into the valve
and wash away the salt build-up.I will try that when I can get back
down to the States to buy one of those air conditioner timers, because
they allow the use of three prong plugs. They are hard to find and
are very expensive here in Canada.
steve newell        [email-masked]

"I'm here because I'm not all there!"

****************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (DAVE ROSSELL)
Subject: RE: SKIMMER FAQ
Date: Thu, 26 Jan 1995 13:01:00 GMT

Here's the info I collected on inexpensive skimmers:

>I've read with great interest the recent postings about these big, expensive,
>efficient sump skimmers.  I'm thinking of getting a skimmer for my 20L salts
>tank, but it has to hang on the tank.  I also (unfortunately) have a $60 price
>cap (grad student and aquarium hobbyist don't mix).  I've been looking at the
>VisiJet skimmer, the Amiricle Sea Reef and the Coralife Super Skimmer series.
>
>Are these inexpensive skimmers worthwhile, or should I just hold off and save
>my pennies?  Are any of them capable of handling a 55 g. tank (I hope to
>upgrade someday)?
>

Let's see, $60 right?  Amiracle Sea Reef 18" hang-on protein skimmer - $40
Aquaclear 201 power head - $14
Whisper 600 (preferably 800) airpump - $20(?)
Well, this is one of the cheapest combination already.  I have the above
items but never got to use them yet.  I am using Supra 3 instead of Whisper
600.  My friend is using the above-mentioned system for his 30g reef and he
has great success with it.  Goodluck.
Eddie

************************************************************************
>
I ordered the amiracle protein skimmer 18" counter current skimmer on
Tuesday from Debron Aquatics for 39.99. Tell ya how it goes on my twenty
gallon reef

*************************************************************************

The Visijet skimmer is useless. The Corallife skimmer is an in the tank
skimmer. If your tank is 20 liters and not 20 gal. will take up too much
inside space.

I am using the smaller of the two Amiricle Sea Reef skimmers and it is
working very well on a 30 gal. tank. I use a Supra 2 pump and usually have
to bleed off a little air to get a nice dry foam. It may release bubbles
into your tank if you use it as a true hang on.(mine sits in a sump)  Make
sure your connections are tight, some people have complained of leakage.

********************************************************************************

Dave Rossell                               "When you lay your dreams to rest,
[email-masked]	            you can get what's second best,
                                            but it's hard to get enough."
						-David Wilcox

***************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Brian P. L'Ecuyer)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Red Sea Berlin Skimmer
Date: 3 Feb 1995 17:06:27 GMT

I have been using this skimmer with an eheim 1060 for about a month.
I works great, i used the eheim because after speaking with them
they recommended it as the appropriate flow/pressure without 
having a ball valve etc... i use it external to my sump.  I recommend
it, it is well made and attractive, the only complaint i have is that
the base of the unit dosn't dissasemble but don't know if this will
matter in the end.  It haven't owned another "descent" skimmer so
i can't compare it to others but it does what it says, nice thick
effluent.

[email-masked]			working on my MSEE/CPE

**************************************************************************

From [email-masked] Tue Feb  7 01:21:18 1995
Date: Mon, 6 Feb 95 12:35:07 EST
From: "Bill Kinney" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: SKIMMER FAQ: UPDATE, WHAT I HAVE SO FAR
To: "JEFF PFOHL" <[email-masked]>

For what it's worth here is an outline of what the skimmer that I use on my
90gal reef tank looks like.  It is the result of 2 years of experimention. 
It is easy and cheap to build and easy to run.

I.  The skimmer
    The skimmer body is made of 4" PVC pipe.  The overall height is 65". 
Water enters through a reducing tee and leaves straight through the bottom. 
Above the inlet is a 4" straight piece of pipe connected to another tee. 
The foam takeoff is from the side of this tee.  Above the tee is a black
rubber pipe cap through which passes the air line.  The top of the skimmer
must sealed, becuase the foam is too thick to flow out the outlet by itself.
All of the air used in the skimmer exits through the foam discharge line.

II.  Water Supply
    The water is pumped from the sump (downstairs) up to the tank using a
Lifeguard QuietOne pump.  All of the water flowing back to the sump (~100
gal/hour) passes through the skimmer.  The skimmer could handle quite a bit
more water flow than this.

III.  Water Exit
    The water leaves the bottom of the skimmer through 1"ID flexable tubing.
This rises to a syphon-break made with a tee fiting.  The water enters the
bottom of the tee and exits down to the sump out the side.  The top is open
through a 6" piece of tubing to prevent syphoning.  The level of foam in the
skimmer is adjusted by raising and lowering this tee.

IV.  Air Supply
    The air is supply by 2 Supreme Dynamaster piston pumps.  The airstone is
homemade from basswood ("limewood").  The airstone is about 6" long and
1.25" square.  It is then drilled down the center with a 3/4" hole.  A 1/2"
male pipe to 1/4" tubing adapter is threaded into the hole.  Two lengths of
1/4" OD hard tubing connected by a short length of 1/4" ID flexible tubing
is used to carry the air down to the bottom of the skimmer.

************************************************************************

Subject: OCEANIC EQUIPMENT
From: [email-masked] (Mike Priest)
Date: Sat, 04 Feb 1995 02:11:00 -0600

David, I have the Oceanic "model 4" protein skimmer and I'm very pleased
with it.  Well worth the extra cash, in my book.
mike

*************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Craig Bingman)
Subject: [M][R] Description of a Novel Skimmer Design (Long)
Date: 20 Feb 1995 07:57:19 GMT

The ETS Foam Fractionator

I mentioned here some time ago that I had seen a foam
fractionator of a novel design, and one that caused me to
reevaluate my paradigm of what is important for a foam fractionator
to function optimally.  I typically don't initiate threads here,
but I'll break from my usual pattern of simply answering questions
with a description of this skimmer, its principles of design and
operation, and take my first cut at explaining why it achieves the
remarkable results that it does.

The design is unconventional, and it is actually derived from a
device that was supposed to strip ammonia directly from the water. 
The old timers here will remember the claims made several years ago
that trickle filters removed ammonia directly from the water by
outgassing.  This was tested, and for freshwater systems, trickle
filters just don't cut it, it takes a lot more than water gently
flowing over some DLS to cause ammonia loss to the air, especially
when the ammonia is almost 100% ammonium ions.  Ammonia
fractionation towers can be made to work, they just have to be
about 20 feet tall and have throughput like Niagara falls, and they
work best at high pH.  Gary was trying to build a home version of
an ammonia stripping tower for marine aquaria, and noticed that it
produced a lot of foam.  The notion that this side effect might be
exploited was the first step in the development of the ETS skimmer.

The unit works by a novel "downdraft" design, where the output from
a high volume, high pressure water pump over a 5+' acrylic tower
filled with bioballs.  Anyone who has stood next to a waterfall
appreciates that the water carries a substantial downdraft of air
with it, and this is how the air is introduced into the bioball
tower.  There is no venturi valve or air pump associated with it,
the water drags the air into the bioball tower.   There is
something like a high pressure water "gun" at the top of the tower,
it narrows down to maybe a quarter inch outlet in some designs. 
The water emerges from this "gun" with substantial pressure and
muzzle velocity.  When it hits the bioballs, it starts breaking up
into a mixture of water and air bubbles.  By the time the water is
a foot or so down the column, the bubbles are becoming very fine,
and this fast moving froth continues down a tortuous path through
the bioballs, mixing and remixing the water with the air, keeping
the bubbles very fine.  

The output of the bioball tower then goes into a rectangular tank,
where the process of separating air from water begins.  There are
some tricky baffles in that box that I don't fully understand, it
is a bit difficult to see exactly what is there when the skimmer is
in operation, and I've never had occasion to look at one when it
was dry.  This seems to be the subtle part of the design, in my
estimation, and I'm told that relatively small changes in the
layout of this component change the results substantially.  

In any event, the foam emerges from this chamber into the foam
riser.  It is of large diameter acrylic tubing (in the 6-8" range)
and is about 24" tall.  In all of the operational skimmers I have
seen, the foam riser has been about 3/4 full of foam, of which the
top 12 inches are very dry, thick foam.   The neck of the riser has
a substantial ID, according to Sprung and Delbeek's book,
relatively large OD tubing at this point gives the best results.  

I first saw the design at Westchester Pet center, where it was
being tested on the tropical marine fish section.  This prototype
was huge, and it had an impressive head of foam on it.  The next
time I saw it was at the same store, this time on the reef aquaria. 
Tony Vargas (co-proprietor at the time) and I were having a chat
about the skimmer, what do you make of it, that sort of thing. 
There was some sentiment that it might be a superior design, and
being my usual "self" suggested that there were few ways of
quantifying skimmer performance (there isn't a foam fractionator
equivalent of an iodine or molasses number as there is for
activated carbon.)  So I opined that the only way to straighten
this out was to run two skimmers against each other on the same
system.  If one was markedly better than the other, it would then
be apparent in the quantity and quality of skimmate from each.  It
also takes out variations in the organic load, presence of anti-
foaming surfactants (stick your hands in your aquarium and see what
happens to your skimmer) and other confounding and difficult to
control effects.

I was surprised (and pleased) that such tests were actually
conducted, and the ETS was tested against several other skimmers,
including a very upscale, well respected, professionally
constructed and designed $700 venturi unit which was previously on
top of my "if I had the money" list of skimmers.  All the skimmers
against which the ETS was run were effectively "shut down" meaning
that they were not able to make enough of a foam head to produce
skimmate.  This was a substantially more "black and white" result
than I had expected, and in my opinion the only reasonable
interpretation of this is that the dissolved organic concentration
in the water had been reduced by the ETS so far that the other
skimmers failed.  The bubbles in the units being run against the
ETS were not very persistent at the surface of the water, actually
it looked more like what I expect to see when fine air bubbles are
blown through fresh water.  However, the ETS was maintaining an
approximately 18" head of foam, and actively producing a dark,
quality skimmate.

Why does it work as well as it does?  Well, my best answer is that
it is a Brute Force design.  A phenomenal amount of air is mixed
into the water, and that mixing is done with considerable force and
violence.  This is unlike most venturi designs, where there is
substantial turbulence as the air/water mixture leaves the venturi,
but then goes into a relatively quiet fractionation column.  CC
units also tend to be quiescent.  While this should theoretically
allow concentration gradients to be set up in the skimmer, in
practice, both venturi and airstone driven CC units are limited in
the amount of air they mix with the water.  Because air only rises
so fast through the countercurrent section of the skimmer, they are
also restricted as to how much water one can put through them, and
they are also limited in the amount of shear they deliver to the
solution.  Mixing is sufficiently violent inside the bioball-filled
column of the ETS skimmer that it is plausible that proteins in the
water are being denatured and rendered into a more skimmable state. 
Other molecular aggregates may similarly be broken up and find
their way to the air/water interface.  There is simply no way that
the skimming process is diffusion limited in the ETS.  All of that
water and whatever is dissolved in it is being intimately mingled
with the air/water interfaces as the water passes through the
bioball column.

Probably the concentration gradients which are essential for foam
fractionation are set up in the foam riser.  There is about 18" 
of foam in the riser, and this prodigious column of foam is
probably protecting itself from turbulence and draining
quiescently.  When I looked at it, it seemed that turbulence was
damping out to essentially nothing before the dry foam layer was
reached.  There is a LOT of air moving though this skimmer, and
it embodies a unique mixture of brute force and grace, from the
violent mixing tube to the draining foam in the riser.

I've seen the skimmer in operation six times now, and was present
for some of the testing (not all of it.)  So I am relying on 
individuals who I feel are reputable sources for a description of
the rest of the testing, and their notes of what has happened in
their systems.

What else does it do besides act as a foam fractionator?

Well, all of the effects that I am describing below are attributes
of all foam fractionators to some extent, this design just seems to
have More of them because it is a very high throughput system.

1.  In all cases that I am aware of, there was a substantial
increase in redox potential (~50 mV) of the water.  Note that this
was observed on functioning reef aquaria that would have been 
considered well skimmed and well maintained by anyone.  Part of 
the increase in ORP is probably due to enhanced oxygen saturation, 
part of it is no doubt because this is an excellent skimmer, and 
organics are removed efficiently.

2.  Gas exchange in general seems to be improved, and this also
manifests itself in enhanced pH stability.  Large reef aquariums
with high intensity illumination and even moderate bioloads have a
tendency to be a bit "strangled" when it comes to either picking up
or losing CO2 to the atmosphere.  The higher the throughput of the
skimmer (air and water volume) the more this situation is going to
be improved.  The ETS directly helps pH stability in this way.

3.  The air flow increases the evaporation from the aquarium, and
that allows one to add more limewater.  Also, and this is very
important, since the water is in better contact with the
atmospheric reserve of CO2, one is less likely to get into the
regime where calcium and alkalinity are being lost from the system
(which can occur when the pH of the aquarium is very high, the most
dangerous time is toward the end of the photoperiod.)  For all the
aquaria running this skimmer about which I have inquired, the
alkalinity has improved.  Good gas exchange is crucial for
limewater to be effectively used as a source of calcium and
alkalinity replenishment.   By promoting excellent gas exchange and
increased evaporation the ETS promotes enhanced stability in
soluble calcium and alkalinity.

4.  Some have indicated that the concentrations of problematic
inorganics have also decreased.  An indirect mechanism is called
for to explain this, as nitrate and inorganic phosphate are not
directly skimmable.   Terry Siegel is reporting decreases in both
on his "new" system, which is a converted fish aquarium, and this
observation may be explained by a couple of effects, all of which
are indirect.  

   A.  Nitrate and inorganic phosphate are often derived from
organic precursors (nitrogen in uneaten food, organic phosphates)
and based on reasons given above, this skimmer is probably doing a
better job of intercepting organics before they are mineralized
than anything I've previously seen.  

   B.  Skimmers are pretty damned good mechanical filters, they
take a lot of particulates out of the water.  Those particulates
may be bacteria, phytoplankton, or organic debris.  All of them are
going to contain some phosphate and organic nitrogen.

   C.  Additionally, because the amount of limewater that may be
added is increased, one may get more inorganic precipitation of
phosphate, and perhaps removal of this from the system in
particulate form.  

It should be remembered that this report is from a converted fish
to reef aquarium, a lot of changes were made at the same time, the
most prominent being the replacement of a very good venturi skimmer
with the ETS, the addition of high intensity lighting (which will
tend to promote algal growth and uptake of both nitrate and
phosphate from the system) and the addition of limewater.

If anyone cares to dismiss the reduction in inorganic pollutants out
of hand because they are not directly removed by the foam fractionation
process, I invite them to disconnect their skimmer for an extended
period of time and report what happens to the concentration of inorganic
pollutants.  They will go up.  It isn't necessarily a one way street,
if you reconnect your skimmer they will probably go down to some extent,
as sources of these nutrients are intercepted before mineralization,
and nutrients incorporated from that existing soluble pool are utilized,
converted into organic form and rendered eligible for removal by a foam
fractionator.

5.  Most of the people who have these skimmers so far have felt
more at ease with feeding the inhabitants more than previously, so
there should be benefits to the organisms from this as well.

Again, all foam fractionators contribute to the above effects. 
This skimmer is higher performance, so it just gives more of these
benefits than is typical.

What are the other considerations related to this skimmer?  

Well, you need a competent water pump to drive any ETS, and a mail-
order little giant pump with enough "humph" to drive the smallest
will set you back another hundred dollars or so, more if you decide
to go with an Iwaki pump.  There will be some incremental heat load
on the system because of this.  It will probably be offset to some
extent by increased evaporation.  The need for a strong water pump
is shared with venturi skimmers as well, so this is hardly a unique
consideration.  You will be getting a slightly higher power bill
as well.  Again, not a unique disadvantage.

Everyone's first concern about the skimmer is "do the bioballs
cause nitrate to accumulate in the system?"  "Do they become
colonized by nitrifying bacteria?"  The flow is really
exceptionally fast and turbulent throughout the bioball section of
this skimmer, and I think the bacteria are going to need mountain
climber's gear to hang onto the bioballs.  No one has reported an
increase in nitrate concentration on any system which is running an
ETS, and I have asked very pointed questions to both system owners
and the designer on this topic.  I will pass along any reports of
problems along this line.

The skimmer apparently "glitches" in the beginning.  It doesn't do
much for a couple of days, but when it starts producing foam: 
Watch Out.  People have found a few gallons of water on their
floor.  After that, it seems quite stable.  The present version of
the skimmer will has an optional collection chamber with a floating
check valve which will block the formation of additional skimmate,
preventing overflows.  Something along these lines is a good option
for any skimmer.  For your peace of mind, your carpet, and your
marriage, it is probably a wise to get this.  Why doesn't it skim
for a day or so after it is installed?  Who knows?  Probably
because the plastic surfaces in the skimmer need to be primed with
organics before it starts to work.

Earlier designs returned a small amount of fine air bubbles to the
system, for this reason, most people are running them out of their
sumps.  This problem may have been solved, I saw prototypes.  A few
bubbles in the sump aren't a big aesthetic issue, and in any event,
there wasn't a problematic amount of air being returned.  It isn't
going to generate noticeable salt spray.

There are two possible adjustments on the skimmer, one of which is
its height relative to the sump.  The second is a water valve that
you may choose to supply yourself to control the amount of water
going through the skimmer, although most people are running the
correctly sized pumps wide open.  I don't think it is a good idea
to tee off an existing pump to feed the skimmer, and most people
don't have enough reserve pumping capacity to make that practical. 
In practice, this skimmer seems to require a dedicated, correctly 
sized pump.

All of the units I have seen so far were plumbed into the system
with flexible (large ID) tubing.  This preserves flexibility in
height adjustment, and you can keep the turns sweeping and low
resistance with flexible tubing, if you do it correctly.  As with
anything you plumb into your system, you need to do it correctly,
with an eye to reducing the possibility of various failure modes.
The unit can handle a lot of flow, indeed, up to its design limit,
the skimmer works better with increasing water flow.  You generally
don't want to lose flow or pressure before the water hits the gun
at the top of the tower.

The ETS will not fit under the cabinet of Anyone's aquarium.   And
you will probably need to feather the height of the skimmer
relative to your sump to get optimal results.  Given the amount of
time people devote to tuning their skimmers, the initial height
adjustment doesn't seem like a major drawback to this design.

I've recently spoken with Tony Vargas, who is marketing the skimmer
for Gary Loehr, the inventor.  They now seem satisfied with the
results of the testing and are now ready to distribute the product. 
The phone number for inquiries is (914) 654-8002, if he is not
there, there is a combination answering machine/fax on the line. 
There are to be exclusive licenses granted to about five stores in
five states on the east coast.   In other states, skimmers will be
mailed out directly by Tony.  Pricing and some product literature
is now available.  The "owner's manual" is being written by Terry
Siegel.  Terry is now running ETS skimmers on two of his large reef
aquaria, and is presently looking to replace his last remaining
venturi unit with a third ETS. 

Greg Schiemer was also closely involved in the testing and
evaluation of these skimmers, and his review of this product will
appear in the next issue of Aquarium Frontiers.  I have a great
respect for Greg's skills as an aquarist, having seen his aquaria
now on three occasions, it is clear that he is extraordinarily
successful with these systems.  Greg's most recent articles include
a piece on herbivorous hermit crabs and a review of calcium test
kits in Aquarium Frontiers.

The skimmer doesn't look like anything else I've seen before, and
it disrupted some of my cherished ideas of what is truly important
for foam fractionation.  However, I am only too happy to see
paradigms overturned (even when they are mine) if the result is a
superior aquarium environment.  Based on what I have seen, the ETS
skimmer is an example of such a paradigm overturning invention.

There is a patent pending on this design.  It is well constructed
from cast cell acrylic, the seams look strong, and attention has
been paid in the design to convenient maintenance (there are
flanges in the right places.)  The construction quality is on par
with the very best commercially available units (for example, the
MTC venturi skimmers) and is far, far better executed than most.

If you are considering the purchase of a quality skimmer, either
for a new system or to upgrade your existing one, I urge you to at
least investigate the ETS, and wish you and your corals only the
best fortune with whatever design you chose.

Craig Bingman

*****************************************************************8

From: [email-masked] (gary sanford)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Sea Tek Protein Skimmer
Date: 26 Feb 1995 11:13:07 GMT

In <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Ally 
Clarke) writes: 

>
>
>Anyone out there knows where I can get hold of a Sea Tek IDL150 Protein
>Skimmer and how much they are in the US.
>

Best venturi skimmer on the market ,I have one and love it!
Sea Tek P.O box 811, Union,N.J. usa,07083-0194
Also,Ocean Gallery,phone#,201-783-7007
Also check FAMA.

***********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Michael O'Brien)
Subject: Re: Visi-Jet Protein Skimmer???
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 1995 00:44:24 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,  <[email-masked]> wrote:
>otis-to ([email-masked]) wrote:
>: I have seen ads recently for a self powered protein skimmer called a
>: Visi-Jet. I am setting up a 55 gallon marine tank and will be filtering
>: it with an A-Miracle 50 wet/dry system and possibly a Fluval 303. If
>: anyone can tell me anything about this skimmer, good or bad, I would
>: appreciate the information.
>
>: Thanks,
>: Tim
>

  i had a visa-jet protein skimmer, but the thing is so hard to keep 
properly tuned.  i had it on my 30 gal reef, and i believe that the
air intake eventually got clogged with calcium deposits (it doesn't work
 at all anymore...).  the unit itself is hard to clean, and maintain and
is an eye sore for the tank.  
   if you plan on having only fish, you may get by, but if you're serious
and have a faint interest in keeping a reef, invest in a real skimmer.  i got
my visa for $40, but managed to construct a real protein skimmer for about
$30 (+$20 for the air pump).  $10 more for a real skimmer is definitely 
worth it.

  my two cents...

-- 
Michael E. O'Brien 				     U of MN - Inst. of Tech.
[email-masked] 		     http://disserv.stu.umn.edu/~mob/
Chemical Engineer & Computer Science Wanna Be      * User of Linux and OS/2 *

****************************************************************************
From: [email-masked] (Anthony Tse)
Subject: Klaes skimmer
Date: 2 Mar 1995 14:44:56 GMT

     I saw the Klaes 5' skimmer at work yesterday.  Really nice.  Don't
know how it would compare to a ETS, but it shut a Tunze down.  It
probably work at least as good as a dual vunturi MTC.  The column
was solid white with bubbles.  The pump draws 58W.  It is magnetically
coupled to the impeller.  The pump body was COOL to the touch.  Don't
think I will notice the pump running if I sleep with it next to my ear,
it's perfectly silent.  There is a air gauge of sort, a plexi tube
with a little black ball in it.  You hook the thing up to the end
of the air intake hose, hang it vertically, how high the ball rise
tells you how much air the skimmer is sucking.  The airline was
restricted so the black ball just max out, so the pump/impeller sucks
in a hugh amount of air, a lot more then say a Mazzei (sp?).  How much
it cost?  If you need to ask, you can't afford it.

-Anthony

***************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Anthony Tse)
Subject: Re: [M][R] Description of a Novel Skimmer Design (Long)
Date: 7 Mar 1995 14:50:22 GMT
>
>>I believe it's a aspirator peg pump type skimmer Sprung
>>mentioned in his book.  The label on the pump said 3300 l/min.  
>
>That is a Lot of something, Anthony.  I have a hard time believing
>that it is moving anything like that much water or air.  That is
>3.3 cubic meters of...  no way.  ;)

    No, it doesn't look like 3.3 cubic meters a minute.  But it
does look like hurracane Andrew is living inside.  There is a lot
of swirling action inside the skimmer, and it suck a hell of a lot
of air.    

>
>The only thing I can come up with that is likely 3300 something 
>per minute is maybe revolutions per minute.  The peg aspirator pumps
>are supposed to have fast spinning impellers with a vane pattern 
>that is more like a bunch of pegs to chop up the air/water mixture
>that is pulled in through on the inlet side of the pump. 

    I think that is how it work.  The pump on that thing is 
expensive, about 2/3 of the skimmer cost went to the pump, and
the dual venturi MTC with Iwaki cost less then the Klaes.  But
then, a 58W pump doing the job of a 200W pump ought to worth something,
and the perfectly silent operation is worth something too.

>
>I haven't seen one, and would be interested to hear your impression of it
>when it is running.

    I really don't know how it compare with the ETS.  The high pressure
spray of the ETS probably does something strange that a coventional
air bubbles in a tube skimmer does not do.  But I don't think there is
a more efficient way one can get max air mixed in with max water
movement.  I don't think any venturi skimmer can touch this one.
I guess you can say the Klaes is a "refined" skimmer, doing it the
elegant high tech way, with min noise and power comsumption.

    I'll see it again tomorrow and should have a better feel of how well
it work.

>
>Craig
>

-Anthony

**********************************************************************

From: Steven Carey <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Red Sea Berlin Skimmer - Problems?
Date: 15 Mar 1995 03:40:12 GMT

[email-masked] (Phil Henderson) wrote:
>
> In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
> (David Walton) wrote:
> 
> > I recently purchased a Berlin Skimmer and a Little Giant 4 MDSQ ? (the one
> > for pressure not circulation).  I can't run the pump at max output because
> > it causes the skimmer to produce a huge amount of very watery foam, so I
> > have to reduce the flow to the skimmer by means of a gate valve.  Also, I
> > have to clean the collection cup every 3-4 days and I cant run the air to
> > the venturi at max output either because I get the watery foam problem. 
> > Now that I have the thing calibrated just right it seems to work fine, but
> > what a pain in the butt.In article <[email-masked]>,
> 
> 
> You shouldn't be running any air to your venturi at all. The venturi valve
> is designed to suck in air by itself. Pumping in air makes things very
> difficult to adjust, as you have found out.
> 
> 
> -- 
> Phil Henderson
> Brea, Ca
> [email-masked]

MY PROBLEM IS THE OPPOSITE, I USE THE RECOMMENDED EHIEM 1060 PUMP
AND MY PROBLEM IS THAT IT SEEMS TO RUN VERY DRY.
THE FOAM THAT IS PRODUCED ACTUALLY STICKS TO THE UPPER PART OF
THE COLLECTION CUP AND TENDS TO BLOCK THE VENTING HOLES.
Is anyone else found this to occurr with their BERLIN skimmer?

************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (John Jensen)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Protein Skimmer
Date: 3 Apr 1995 17:05:52 GMT

Best skimmer I've ever used...

The "Berlin" by Red Sea Products ($124). It's rated for up to a 250gal
tank and is Venturi. It's only 24" tall. It has a triple pass 
chamber that actually makes the skimmer think it's 60" tall! The 
bubbles go up, then down, then up again. Making it the triple pass. 
I run mine with a Rio 2500 ($36) and have excellent results on my 
240gal SW reef. 

You'd be happy with one....

In article <[email-masked]>, Trevor Kramer <[email-masked]> says:
>
>I have decided to upgrade my protein skimmer.  I am looking for 
>suggestions for ones that work for you.  I keep a 58 gallon reef.
>
>Currently I am looking at the Aero II Skimmer with extension to make
>entire unit 4 feet, or the new US Aquarium 48 inch skimmer.  Have
>anyone out there had any experience with these units.  Thanks in 
>advance.
>
>              Trevor

***************************************************************

From: <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: skimmer recommendation
Date: 21 Apr 1995 06:45:01 GMT

 Brad Miller <[email-masked]> writes:
>I was about to set up a 90 gal SW reef tank and was wondering   
>how big of a skimmer I actually need to maintain the tank using   
>the Berlin method (no filter media). 
> 
>Can someone tell me what brands/models of skimmers are up to   
>the task? 
> 
>I have used a Oceanic model 6 and a Red Sea "Berlin" Skimmer 
in the past with dismal results.  I currently use a Biozone 90101 high vol.
venturi skimmer.  This by far is the best skimmer I have seen ( I help
as an aquatic consultant at a local pet store).

Stats: it is only 20 in high, has a "twin" tube collection system for the
waste material.  This skimmer will demand a strong pump (400 to 900 gph) 
non powerhead type of pump.  The skimmer will draw approx 6 to 12 liters
of air per min. and will EASILY outperform 7 ft. counter current skimmers

Contrary, to the previous threads re: skimmers "having" to be 4 ft or greater
in height, this skimmer is rather compact.  The air inlet requires 1/4 in ID
tubing (not the standard airline tubing used which is 1/4 OD)

Those who state a large skimmer is the "only" answer, have not been keeping
up with the advancments made in skimmer technologies.

***************************************************************************************************

From [email-masked] Fri Apr 21 18:53:14 1995
From: Chris Immer <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: [Q][M] Amiracle Skimmers
To: [email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL)
Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 18:51:17 -0400 (EDT)
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]> from "JEFF PFOHL" at Apr 21, 95 05:53:21 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 1277      

	If you want my vote for the Sanders WT-350, I believe that it
is a decent skimmer but not meant for the dedicated "reef" tank.  It
is suitable for a mostly-fish tank with a few inverts, but those
interested in more sensitive species should get a more heavy duty
skimmer.
	The WT-350 is a counter-current, airstone driven skimmer.  The
reaction chamber is about 14" but only 12" are filed with bubles.  It
is designed to run inside a bath of water, be it either your tank or
your sump.  The collection cup is very easy to detach and clean.  The
counter current is driven by air flowing by a port in the bottom of
the reaction chamber.  The Sanders skimmers come in various sizes
ranging from 10" to 20".  These are available from mail order for
around $35-$40.
	I have had some trouble tuning it, but that is probably my
inexperience with skimmers.  You definately want an air pump with 2
discrete outputs.  One output for the airstone, one to run the counter
current.  A good air pump for the skimmer is the Whisper 800.
Btw...the skimmer comes with an airstone, but it is crap.  You will
want to order some good quality airstones to run it (I like coralife).

I will forward you all the info I recieved while researching.

-- 

					Chris Immer
					[email-masked]

*****************************************************************************
Date: Thu, 1 Dec 94 07:12:39 MST
From: [email-masked] (Rich Holloway)

I have one of the Coralife Super Skimmer II Protein Skimmers. It is about
14" tall. It is a low budget skimmer about $25.00 via mail order. I run
it in a 70 gal. I don't feel it is adequate for a reef tank but it sure works
OK for my setup which has a similar mix of fish and inverts as yours. The basic
theory here is the more air pushed through a taller column the better the
skimmer. In a counter current model, water is pulled down through the column
as air from the airstone pushes up through the column making it act as if
you had a longer column. I plan on buying a better skimmer for my 70 gal.
but will move the coralife to my 45 gal. fish/invert setup where I now run
a skilter 250. The Skilter also has a protein skimmer about 8" tall built
into it. It works to a limited degree. It is noisy. I recommend that if you
get the Coralife skimmer, power it with a good strong airpump. I use Supra
pumps. The coralife uses 2 air inputs. One drives the counter current and the 
other the airstone. Supra pumps are a little pricey so order them via mail
order also. E-mail me if you need mail order info.

Good luck,

Rich holloway
[email-masked]

***************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (John V. Weil)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: [Q][M] Amiracle Skimmers
Date: 24 Apr 1995 22:16:27 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:

> Has anyone had any experience with these? (specifically the hurricane,
> or the typhoon etc..., these are venturi driven, 4" diameter, and
> translouscent blue in color) How well do they perform compared to
> others in their size/price range?
> 
> I will be skimming a 29 g Mostly fish tank.  I will soon be adding a
> 5-8 gallon sump to my tank and I was thinking of getting the "middle"
> model of those three in that series (19" I believe).  Will this work
> for me? Or is there some other skimmer that would have better
> price/perfromance?
> 
> Also I am thinking of driving the skimmer with an otto 2000 (535 gph).
> Will this work?

I have had the double venturi version on my 100gal tank and it is superb. 
It is effective and very easy to adjust and keep adjusted. The otto 2000
works fine on it - the Rio 2100 may be even a little better.

-- 
John V. Weil

************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Ron Feigen)
Subject: Re: [Q][M] Amiracle Skimmers
Date: Tue, 25 Apr 1995 16:14:30 GMT

I had a double venturi model too and thought it was crap. A bought a Red Sea
and it pulls way more (at least 10x) than the Otto ever did.  Of course the
Red Sea cost a lot more too and requires a bigger pump.. but you get what you
pay for

ron

In article [email-masked], [email-masked] (John V. Weil) writes:

>I have had the double venturi version on my 100gal tank and it is superb. 
>It is effective and very easy to adjust and keep adjusted. The otto 2000
>works fine on it - the Rio 2100 may be even a little better.
>
>-- 
>John V. Weil

****************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Robert Schuh)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci,aquaria
Subject: Re: {M}{R}{Q} 110 Reef Setup
Date: 25 May 1995 04:36:25 GMT

If you have to go with flourescents you should go with VHO. The reg
flou. are not strong enough to keep corals. The Red Sea will not be
suffient to run a 110. All of the Red Seas that I have seen are doing
well on 55 gal and smaller. Don'y bevieve their claim of up to 300 gal.
The only time that I have seen a Berin on a big system they were
pumping 1,000,000 mg of ozone.

[email-masked]

**************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Michael C. Moore)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: skimmer for a 10 gal
Date: Tue, 30 May 1995 16:18:13

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Roy Keyes) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Roy Keyes)
>Subject: skimmer for a 10 gal
>Date: 29 May 1995 18:18:54 -0500

>Hi.  I'm looking for a new internal skimmer for my 10 gal.  Right now I 
>have a Sanders Piccolo, but i cannot seem to get it to work at all.  If 
>anyone can recommend a good skimmer that would require no additional 
>plumbing, I would eagerly entertain a response.  Also I would appreciate 
>any suggestions on how to get my present skimmer to work (though I've 
>pretty much given up).

>Thanks,
>Roy

Roy,
I had a piccolo and it worked OK.  The trick seems to be that it needs to 
stick out of the water about two inches to get a decent foam head on it that 
doesn't overflow.  It also helps to put one of the bigger wooden airstones in 
it rather than the little one that comes with it.  Any skimmer requires a 
fairly good airpump - what are you using?  I ran mine with a tetra luft pump 
at about 2/3 the max setting.  Anyway, even though I got mine to work to 
some extent on my 20 gal reef, its still only a 4 inch (reaction chamber) 
cocurrent skimmer.  I upgraded to a Saunders WT350.  This is longer than the 
piccolo (about a 14 inch reaction chamber) so it may not work in a 10 gal - 
maybe the WT250 will.  Both the 250 and 350 are countercurrent and my 
WT350 puts out a lot more, darker junk than the piccolo.  Either would be an 
upgrade for you. Coralife also introduced some new countercurrent intank 
models (models III and IV) that probably will work also depending on how much 
depth you have.  The trick is to get a counter current model (not the 
cocurrent Coralife I and II for example - they are just big piccolos), a 
larger wooden airstone and a powerful airpump.  Any skimmer takes a lot of 
fiddling to get right, so just keep at it.  If you upgrade or need more help, 
drop me a line.  I have a fair amount of experience with these in tank 
skimmers.  Good luck
                
                Michael C. Moore
                Tempe, AZ
                aomcm @ asuvm.inre.asu.edu

"If the road to excellence were not so difficult,
  it would not be travelled by so few"  Spinoza

****************************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Phil Henderson)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: [R] Skimmer for a 30 g reef ?
Date: 1 Jun 1995 21:36:37 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Bill Hartford)
wrote:

> I am starting a thirty gallon reef this summer and was wondering what was a 
> good skimmer for this size tank.  WIth the sump, i estimated the overall capacity
>  to be about fifty gallons.  I am looking in the middle of the price range, up to about 
> $150 dollars without the pump.
> 
> Please email me or post if you have any suggestions, they would be very much 
> appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> BIll Hartford
> Virginia Tech

I am using a Sander AH 400 venturi skimmer on my 40 gal. reef since I set
it up 2 years ago. This tank is the best of my 4 reef tanks. The tank's
never had any algae problems and everything grows. The tank doesn't contain
any hard corals (personal preference), but all the soft corals, polyps,
mushrooms, sponges, gorgonians and anemones are growing and or reproducing,
and the 7 fish are doing great.

I think the unit is around $150. Most shops don't carry it in stock, but if
they carry the Sander in tank skimmers they can order one for you. Either
an Otto 2000 or a RIO 2100 will work very well as a pump. I wouldn't
recommend anything smaller.

The whole unit is about 23" tall. The collection cup is large and very easy
to remove and clean. The venturi valve is also relatively easy to remove
and clean if you need to.

-- 
Phil Henderson
Brea, Ca
[email-masked]

**********************************************************************

From [email-masked] Thu Jun  1 19:05:33 1995
From: [email-masked] (Michael Lohmeyer -CSE)
Subject: Re: MOPS bad experience
To: [email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL)
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 1995 15:57:11 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]> from "JEFF PFOHL" at Feb 8, 95 09:22:52 pm
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 5049      

You wrote a while back:

>Once again I am collecting info for the revised FAQ/archive. I am
>interested in all information you can provide on skimmers. Please
>include dimensions, tank size, counter or co-current, air stone or
>venturi (as well as brands of water and air pumps), brand name,
>approximate cost and how it compares to other skimmers you are
>familiar with and finally whether you would buy it again. All other
>comments are of course welcome. Please post (email is ok too).
>THANKS!!!
>
>
>
>				JEFF PFOHL

     It is a little late, but I thought I would reply.  

     When you first sent out your message, I had just bought my new
skimmer and did not have enough experience with it to pass on.  Now that
it has been operating since February, I can say a few things.

     I am not posting this directly to *.aquiaria because I have not been
reading the group lately.  Perhaps all of this has been hashed over and
my information is nothing new.  If you don't think so, let me know and I
will post the entire message to rec.aquaria.  Otherwise, this info is for
you to consider for the Skimmer part of the FAQ.

     I got a Red Sea Pharm Berlin Protien Skimmer.  It cost me about $190
plus shipping from That Fish Place.  The price was exactly retail because
at the time, Red Sea Pharm forbid anyone from selling it for less.  This
included both high volume mail order as well as local mom & pop shops.
I know this because I called Red Sea Pharm to find a place to buy it and
we talked a bit about their distrubition.  The guy explained this policy
to me.  Latly, I have noticed a few people getting them for less.  Perhaps
the retail price is dropping, or the policy has been dropped.

     This skimmer is a tangential entry venturi type.  It is about 22 inches
tall and 6 inches in diameter (from base to top of overflow container.
(Sorry, I don't have specifics on reaction chamber, etc.)  The skimmer works
with a 3 chamber arrangement.  Water and bubbles are introduced at the
bottom of the inner most chamber.  They flow up to the top.  The water
flows down the chamber between the inner most and the outer most chambers.
As it flows, the bubbles are drawn down the tube.  Near the bottom of the
tube, the bubbles (due to boyancy and an expansion chamber), stop flowing 
with the water and flow back up the chamber.  Hence, the tripple pass that
Red Sea Pharm advertises.  The water flows to the outer chamber with 
practically no bubbles left.  It flows to the top of the skimmer and out
the 2 output tubes.  

     Taking the tripple pass into account, it is probably equivelent to
a 50 to 60 inch tall, 2.5 inch diameter reaction chamber (my extimate
at least).  It also provides a counter current reaction in what is 
otherwise a co-current skimmer.

     My tank is a 60 Gal Hex reef system.  It uses live rock, live sand and
the skimmer for filtration.  No other filtration is used.  The skimmer is
being driven by a Little Giant 4MDQ-SC.  The output fo the 4MDQ-SC is split
into 3 outputs using a 3 valve manafold arrangement.  One output is the 
return to the tank.  The second is the line to the skimmer.  The third is
to bleed off excess water pressure back into the sump (or for future 
options or upgrades).  

     The Berlin Skimmer is listed as being able to handle 110 (about) GPH,
but later in the Literature, it is mentioned that 500 GPH is needed.
I have not varified this yet, but I belive that the skimmer is capable of 
110 GPH water throughput, but requires the equivelent of a 500GPH at 0 head
pressure pump.  

     My LG 4MDQ-SC is suppose to put out about 800 GPH at 1 foot of head.
I am putting about 1/3 of this through the skimmer, 1/3 back to the sump
and 1/3 to the tank.  If I put more water through the skimmer, it will  
start to overflow bubbles out the top to fast.  I end up with very wet 
bubbles and a mess on the floor.  

     The skimmer has a screw to adjust the air flow to the venturi.
I normally leave it wide open and adjust the water flow to the skimmer.

     The output tubes are such that they can have a house attached to them
to direct water out of the skimmer back into a sump.  When I originally 
used these tubes, I found that the water would not flow out of the skimmer
consistently.  It fluxed back and forth between the two tubes.  This caused
the water/bubble level in the top of the skimmer to bounce up and down.
It made it very hard to prevent the skimmer from overflowing.  I solved
this problem by placing the skimmer in my sump and having the water flow
out and fall into the sump (without using the hoses).

     The skimmer has worked as well as I expected it would, but I have
not had a chance to compare with other skimmers.  I would probably buy one
again, but only if I could get a better price for it.  I do, however,
feel that the skimmer is easier to use than many others I have seen, and
I think it works pretty well for its size.

Mike
-------------
Mike Lohmeyer
San Jose CA
(408) 749-2914
[email-masked] 
(or [email-masked])

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Richard R. Hardy)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Which Skimmer  ?
Date: Mon, 05 Jun 1995 12:29:24 -0400

[email-masked] (IGrodem) wrote:
>I have narrowed my choices to 2 and would like some opinions. My cabinet
>height is 23.5 in. so my choices are limited, but i have found both the
>Red Sea Berlin and the Top Fathom 100 are both within these limits. My
>question is which one would be more efficient for my (soon to be ) reef
>tank.
>I plan on getting another 50 lbs of live rock and more fish. Any help
>would be greatly appreciated since I need to buy one of these rather
>quickly due to my filthy tank. Also, would it be o.k. to remove Chemi pure
>from wet/dry after the skimmer is up and running ? 

I had similar cabinet restraints and went with the Red Sea and like it a
lot.  After some initial difficulty with "tuning" it (I guess a common
problem with skimmers, this is my first), it works great now on a 55g
tank.  The recommended throughput is 110g/hr and if you follow the "two
tank vols per hour" rule, then this is about the upper limit size tank for
the Berlin...

-- 
R. Hardy
Member, Institute for Cancer Research,
Fox Chase Cancer Center, Philadelphia, PA
(215) 728-2463

From: Dennett Jaques <dennett@exocet>
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: (M)(Q) Berlin Skimmer
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 16:21:58 +1000

The Berlin skimmer, although initially difficult to set up is working very 
well. Once tuned it creates a very rich froth that contains very little 
wasted water. The screw adjuster on the venturi allows very fine control 
which is a plus.

It seems to be very capable of skimming the 180 gals so no problems there.

In my setup, I drive the skimmer with an Eheim 1060 which again seems a 
good match for the skimmer.

The problems I encountered initially related to the water return pipes 
from the skimmer to the trikle filter sump. Unless they (2 of them) 
travel horizontally and then via elbows to vertically drop the water into 
the sump, the skimmer will surge the water out of these pipes with a lot 
of noisy gurgling. This surging also causes the bubbles to be too large 
in the collection chamber, causes the bubbles to surge also which makes 
it impossible to tune and wastes a lot of water with very little protein 
collected.

If you overcome this problem though, and do your plumbing exactly as 
drawn in the accompanying manual, it will work like a ripper!

	                ====
                        |  |
         |     +--------|  |   <--- Make sure they are horizontal.
         |     |        ====
         |     |       |    |   
         |     |  |    |    |
         |        |    |    |
         |________|   ========

Any more questions - just let me know.

Cheers...

Dennett

On 31 May 1995, gary sanford wrote:

 In <Pine.SOL.3.91.950522163215.27932A-100000@exocet> Dennett Jaques 
> <dennett@exocet> writes: 
> 
> >
> >I have just purchased a Berlin skimmer from Red Sea and it says it 
> works 
> >on tanks up to 250g. My tank is 180g. As this new setup has just 
> matured 
> >I have not had a chance to run the skimmer yet.
> >
> >Cheers...
> >Dennett
> >
> >On 14 May 1995 [email-masked] wrote:
> >
> >> Can anyone tell me how efficient the Berlin skimmer from Red Sea is, 
> and how 
> >> big of a tank will it carry? I plan on using it on a 110 gal. reef 
> tank I am 
> >> setting up. Thanxs in advance.
> >> 
> >> 
> >
> 
> Well,please let us in on the results as many are
> curious.
> Personally,I think that tank is too big for that
> skimmer.
> Good luck with the big reef!
> GS
> 
> 
> 

**********************************************************************

From: Steven Carey <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: [M] Tuning Red Seas Berlin Skimmer
Date: 7 Jul 1995 23:01:47 GMT

[email-masked] (The Not) wrote:
>
> 
> Ok, now that i got my pump/skimmer setup running.  I can't quite seem to hit
> the hot-spot in the skimmer tower.  If i turn the water pressure up to
> get the air bubble output i want in the skimmer, i have a problem with the
> water siphoning out of the skimmer outlets making a gurgling sound and
> a sudden rush of water down the return hoses.
> 
> If i adjust the skimmer not to siphon i dont get the air mixture i would 
> expect.  The inner column is totaly cloudy with bubbles.  The middle
> column has hardly any bubbles in it.  Just a fine very un-dense mixture of 
> bubbles.
> 
> Chris Nalley

This may help but red sea have problems with the Venturi valve. I found this out
as i run 3 of them together in my sump, all 3 function to differing abilities,
however, the best performing one's venturi valve was swapped to the 
other skimmers in turn and presto! their performance was improved
to the performance of the original best performing skimmer while the original
best skimmers performance was reduced to very poor with the swapped valve.

I reported this to my supplier, he in turn contacted the importer and
nothing happened. I then rang this importer who told me that yes their 
has been problems and that Red Sea are in the process of redesigning
the valve. I am being sent some replacements to try.

Hope this may help but may help others not happy with proper foam production
in their skimmer.

Regards 

Steve Carey

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Mark Doyle)
Subject: Re: visi-jet protein skimmers
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 1995 18:51:16 GMT

Scott,

Your going to get a lot of people out there saying how bad the Vis-Jet is but I 
think it is worth the $25-35.  It takes some adjusting but it does pull out a lot
of gunk.  I was suprised to see some of the more experienced Marine fish 
people around using them.  I have visited a lot of shops that use them too.  So 
take the replies with a grain of salt.  If you get one it take some adjusting but it 
does a pretty good job for smaller tanks.

Good Luck,
MarkD

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Scott McCallum) says:
>
>
>
>Would anyone recommend the Aquarium Systems visi-jet protein skimmer
>for a 30 gal sw with mostly live rock?
>
>the price looks nice, but I was wondering how well it would work.
>
>thanks
>scott

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria;,alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Tunze Skimmers
Date: 12 Aug 1995 20:31:15 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] 
says...
>
>Does anyone here have experience using the Tunze 233 or 230 skimmer? What 
is 
>your opinion compared to traditional skimmers? Does contact skimming work? 
>If you used a rail or clip mount, did you eliminate the sump, or retain the 
>sump for GAC and such?
>
>
>
I had their Turbelle 230 model for several years, Mine was the horizontal 
mount unit, completely self contained.  It was mounted above the sump on 
it's mounting frame and the water exited straight into the sump, through a 
carbon filter.

I've heard of folks who had trouble with them, but mine never gave me a bit 
of problems.  I took it to one of my places of employment for a tank that I 
set up their and when I left that firm, the owner requested that I leave the 
tank, which he paid me a very fair amount for.

The last I heard, it was still operating perfectly.

As far as recommending their various models, that I can't help you with, as 
I was only familiar with the Turbelle unit that I had.

Gary

**********************************************************************

From: Beau Ranheim <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: [M][R] Oceanic Skimmer Opinions Sought
Date: 24 Aug 1995 03:16:07 GMT

[email-masked] (Phil Sanders) wrote:
>on the Oceanic brand?  I plan to use one in my 100 gal reef.

Phil, I had one that worked great for the two years I had it.  Never had a problem 
with it.  I sold it to a friend whan I moved and he had it for two years when it 
started leaking at one of the seams.  he called the company and they told him to 
send it back for repair.  Well much to his surprise they sent him a new skimmer at 
N/C.  Great company with grat products.  We need more of them in this hobby.

Beau

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Mdickins)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: [M][R] Oceanic Skimmer Opinions Sought
Date: 24 Aug 1995 11:37:45 -0400

I have a 6 inch on a 55 gallon oceanic tank (overkill).  It works great
but with the 6 inch (I dont know about the 4 inch) the eheim pump is just
marginal power.  If the hose is used to connect to the skimmer you dont
get enough flow to produce a tall column of foam so you have to restrict
the output.

**********************************************************************

From: Bob Broucek <bobb>
Subject: Re: [M][R] Oceanic Skimmer Opinions Sought
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 1995 21:20:55 GMT

Phil,  I use the series 4 on my 90 gal REEF + a 5 foot CC skimmer.  The Eheim
pump that I received with the Ocianic Series 4 Venturi Skimmer, IMO,was not
nearly strong enough.  I use the series 4 in a Ocianic series 75 W/D used only
as a sump.  The Ocianic Series 4 Venturi Skimmer did not perform well....until
I tosses the supplied Eheim pump and put a RIO2100 on it.  Still does not quite
work as good as my 5 foot Counter-Current Skimmer.  I've seen best performance
out of my Ocianic skimmer with ~ 500 gph pump.

-Bob Broucek-

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Kevin Hicks)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: [R]: Sump bubbles from Amiracle skimmer
Date: Wed, 30 Aug 1995 13:29:04

In article <[email-masked]> [email-masked] (Florida GC) writes:
>From: [email-masked] (Florida GC)
>Subject: Re: [R]: Sump bubbles from Amiracle skimmer
>Date: 24 Aug 1995 20:09:00 -0400

>I too just got the same skimmer and have the same problem.  I was told
>that the only solution is to install a sponge over the outlet side of the
>skimmer and retune for volume.  The bubbles "should" pop before exiting
>the sponge.  Also do you have any problem with the voulme in the skimmer
>staying put.  In mine it seems that when the water evaporates from the
>sump, the skimmer level goes down and when I add some water it goes back
>up and sometimes too far and fills the collector to quick, any
>reccomendations???
I have used the dual venturi version of this skimmer for six months.  It works 
well, producing lots of dark foul stuff in the collecting cup.  The level 
problem can be solved with a water make-up system.  I have a float valve ($18) 
which releases gravity fed fresh water into the sump.  This keeps the water 
level perfectly steady and allows the skimmer to be fine tuned.  It also has 
the atvantages of allowing slow administration of kalkwasser or other 
additives and lessening maintainance time. To prevent bubbles from being 
returned to the display tank I was able to simply direct the skimmer exhaust 
away from the return pump.

**********************************************************************

From [email-masked] Tue Sep  5 20:23:49 1995
Date: Tue, 05 Sep 1995 17:25:58 -0700
To: [email-masked]
From: [email-masked] (tim weishaar)
Subject: protein skimmer

I have been using a 4' U.S. Aquarium PS for the past 2 years, this is a
venturi  model which requires no maintenance other then cleaning. I have it
on a 90 gal  saltwater tank,fish only. It runs on a Little Giant 4-md-sc, my
only complaint  would be that its performance seems to drop with tank
evaporation.I don't rem-  ember my original cost,I think it was around $150
dollars.
                              Thanks, Tim Weishaar
                              Victoria,Canada
                   
**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Steve Maurer)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
Subject: [M] Stats on the ETS Protein Skimmer...
Date: 5 Sep 1995 17:14:09 -0700

Having seen the ad for the ETS protein skimmer in FAMA once too
often, curiosity go the better of me and I called them up for the
low down.

For those of you who haven't heard of the ETS, this is a new water
pump powered skimmer which uses a "waterfall" type method for generating
foam - rather than a venturi valve.  These sorts of skimmers have been
in use for years in sewage treatment plants, but the ETS is the first
(and if their patent is approved) and only type available for the home
aquaria markets.

ETS skimmers - as you will soon see - are extremely expensive, but
they also seem capable of skimming "gunk" out of tanks others are unable
to.  They have gone around to fish stores, and sold their product by 
letting the store "clean" a tank, then running an ETS and getting
buckets more foam out.

Inventor:		Gary Law
Sole Distributor:	MAV Reef Enterprises (owner: Tony Vargas)
Phone Number:		914 654-8002

Tony is a car salesman for his day job, so you are likely to only
get his answering machine unless you call between 6PM and 8PM EST.

The following numbers came from MAV Reef.  Note: These prices DO NOT
include the pump.

Model	 Size	Tank size	Pump required	"GPH/skimming"	Price
ETS 500   36"   Up to 100G      LG 4MD		500 G/H		$500
ETS 800    5'   90G to 450G     Iwaki 55RLT	800 G/H		$700
ETS 1600   5'   200G to 1600G   Iwaki 100RLT	1600 G/H	$900

MAV Reef claims that on this scale, a Red Sea Berliner is a 125 G/H
skimmer really only capable of skimming a 40 gallon tank.  Calculations
for tank size are done presuming you care to keep the most delicate
corals and inverts - so you could increase the tank size for less
sensitive inhabitants.

The excuse for the high price (it took a while for me to get it out
of Tony - they know this is a sticking point with a lot of people) is
that they had to make 80 prototypes of the ETS before they got it right.
Plus they are financing a patent application. < Insert violin solo here >.

Since I don't have a "monster tank" (yet), I wasn't really interested
in buying, so I don't know how firm they are on that price.

They also don't accept credit cards, since they apparently got burned
by a con artist who bought 6 ETS's over the phone with a stolen card.

-- 
Steve Maurer					#include <stdisclaimer.h>
MTS, OpenV*High Availability Development	OpenVision Technologies, Inc.
(510) 426-3680					7133 Koll Center Parkway
[email-masked]				Pleasanton, CA 94566

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (-DANIEL.M.KUSTER)
Subject: Re: [M] Stats on the ETS Protein Skimmer...
Date: Thu, 7 Sep 1995 14:04:40 GMT

I've had an ETS 800 up and running on my 120 gal. reef tank for about
a month now.  It's a very interesting beast.  It took about 4 days to
get going, but it does produce a LOT of foam.  It's also fairly quiet,
doesn't have a venturi valve to clog, and you don't need to replace 
wooden air stones every 3-4 weeks.  It also wins the award for most
efficient skimmer given its relatively small size.  So far, I'm very
happy with it.  I guess I could say that (to me) it is worth the money  ;-)

I upgraded because I got sick of the maintenance on my homemade, 
6' X 6" air driven, counter current skimmer.  Also, I couldn't get the
volume of water processed that I wanted.

These skimmers are expensive, and they are not discounted (as far as I can
tell).  I believe that there is only ONE local pet shop per state that
is allowed to sell them.  The Pennsylvania store (I forget the name) is
located in Stroudsburg.  The New Jersey store I bought mine from is
the Clinton Pet Center, in Clinton, NJ..  I paid exactly $700 for the
ETS 800.  By the way, if you buy from the local reseller, they WILL take
credit cards - assuming they do for other merchandise.  Don't forget to
factor in the cost of a new pump to run the thing.  Jim Carbone (owner of
the Clinton Pet Center) and Tony Vargas (who I met when I picked up my skimmer)
are now recommending larger capacity pumps.  You get more foam production and
higher flow rates.  Jim Carbone talked me into getting a "Gen-X" pump.  Its
a Japanese brand.  This pump is VERY efficient.  I believe its rated at around
1100 gal/hour, but consumes only 55 watts!!  I bought two:  One to run the
skimmer, and one to replace my noisy, hot, inefficient (230 watts), 800 gal/hr.
Iwaki 40 RLT.  So far I love these pumps.  They cost $200 each.

Before anyone responds to this post with, "gee, it must be nice to be
made of money!", I'm not.  But let's face it.  Reef keeping is a very expensive
hobby.  And when I add up the investment in fish, acropora, and other hard and
soft corals in the tank, its more than the cost of the tank, stand, lighting,
and filtration.  I don't see the logic in skimping on the equipment and
providing a less than ideal environment to save a few bucks.

I'll observe the tank and skimmer for another month or so and then post
some follow up observations.

Dan Kuster
[email-masked]

**********************************************************************

From: "Robert J. Toonen" <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Aquariums - large protein skimmers - foam fractionators
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:05:58 -0700

> Malcolm Mackay ([email-masked]) wrote:
> : Information regarding the design and construction of very large foam 
> : fractionators ie. to take a flow of 25 litres/sec.
> 

Try Aquatic Eco-Systems, Inc.  AES is a big aquaculture equipment company 
located in Apopka, Florida.  They have a series of foam separators/protein 
skimmers rated from aquarium size to 10,000 lbs fish capacity continuous 
duty (for $167 you can't be bothered to build your own that size!!).  If 
you have more fish than that in your system, I'm not sure what you're 
doing!  The system runs off about a 3" diameter pvc inlet, so that ought 
to handle 25 l/sec, stands about 40" tall and must have 34" of water to 
stand in.  But look them up and give them a call - they may have 
something that will work for you....

Just my $0.02.
	Rob

**********************************************************************

From [email-masked] Tue Nov  7 15:27:34 1995
From: [email-masked]
Date: 7 Nov 95 13:25:13 -0600
To: [email-masked] (Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: RE: (fwd) Re: [M][R]  Skimmer Survey for all.

No Problem Jeff.  I guess I have not "looked" at your Skimmer summation 
lately.  Anyway,  Here is a replay I received yesterday that you may want to 
view.

" To: Broucek-CBB019 Bob

X-Organization: eWorld

I have been pondering the skimmer problem for some time now.  I want to get 
a new skimmer (maybe a whole new setup) that works.  All I want is something 
that works!  Everybody has a different opionion as to what works.  One other 
thing, it should be built to last.

My current setup requires me to run the skimmer outside the sump due to the 
fact that I was talked into buying a Del-Rey 125 filter from my local fish 
store - which while is a fine filter - has no room in the sump for a skimmer 
(let alone two pumps).

Finally, I was convinced by the same fish store owner to buy a Sanders
Venturi Skimmer (model 350 I think, or whatever one is 18" tall) and a
Rio-2100 pump.  Actually, he sold me a slightly used Sanders he had in the 
store which may have compounded my problem.

This skimmer was working pretty well, until it exploded causing a sizable 
flood in my living room.  The problem with this skimmer is that the internal 
fittings are simply attached via friction with no locking
mechanism other than the friction of the fit.  Well, when I made an
adjustment to increase foam height, it exploded (fitting blew off from
pump pressure) and made a big mess.  It probably wouldn't have made as big a 
mess if it had been inside my sump since I found out later that this skimmer 
isn't really designed to run outside a sump.  (Wish the fish store guy, 
knowing that I needed to run outside the sump had taken this into 
consideration)  Needless to say, I do not plan to spend great deals of my 
money at this fish store anymore.

Anyway, my experience with the Sanders unit is that it does work well, but 
the construction methods are a little weak.  I do have friends using this 
same skimmer with much sucess, however, so it may vary from skimmer to 
skimmer as to how well this friction fitting stays attached.  However, a 
better locking mechanism would ensure that such an explosion would never 
happen.

  Daniel I. Lipton
   Learning to Skim."

**********************************************************************

From [email-masked] Wed Nov  8 10:07:40 1995
To: [email-masked] (Receipt Notification Requested)
Cc: [email-masked] (Receipt Notification Requested),
        [email-masked] (Receipt Notification Requested)
Subject: Skimmer survey dropped.

Jeff,
Here's another one.  BTW - I really like the skimmer & pump database you put 
together, EXCELLENT.  It's been about 1 a year since I rummaged through 
there and it has certainly grown (lot of effort I can see).  SO.....it would 
be pointless for me to "re-invent" the wheel so to speak.

Happy REEF keeping, Jeff

--- Bob Broucek --- 

PS - F.I.Y --> Daniel & Mike,  I've forwarded your input to Jeff,  Thanks!.
_____________________________________________________________________________
__
To: Broucek-CBB019 Bob
From: [email-masked]@INTERNET on Tue, Nov 7, 1995 8:07 PM
Subject: Re: [M][R]  Skimmer Survey for all.

Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Organization: Hewlett-Packard

Hi,

I am using one of the smaller top fathom skimmers for our 40g
reef tank.  I've had it about a month, and it is working better
than the skimmer it replaced.

I used to have an in-tank, counter current type, the brand escapes
me at the moment.  It is the classic cheap one.  It too worked
fairly well.  It's just that I got tired of replacing air-stones,
and it was sensitive to water levels in the tank.  In particular,
it didn't fit well in my acrylic tank, so there was only one position
I could use it in, and that position required me to lower the water
level more than I wanted.  It would not have been a problem on a glass
or other tank with better rear access.

But, back to the top fathom.  Venturi's are noisy.  The pump (rio 1700)
and powerhead (hagen 802) also contribute.  But, my wife isn't complaining,
and it does skim out some really great (relatively :-) gooey icky
gunk.  and that's the point.

mike

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Kerry M Miller)
Subject: Re: Top Fathom Protein Skimmer pricing?
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 19:08:30 GMT

Kyle Ballard ([email-masked]) wrote:
: I recently went to the pet store and saw a Top Fathom Protein Skimmer
: for $200.  The model was a Top Fathom 200 with venturi.  The price did
: not include water pump or air pump (which I wondered why it had one if
: it claimed to be venturi).  Nonetheless, I was wondering if this was a
: decnt price.  I have heard many praises about the skimmer so I am
: anxious about if it is a good deal.  I tried to look in FAMA, but could
: not find any retailers that sold the skimer.  I only saw the ad and
: what dealers carry the skimmer.  Also the skimmer is a non-see through
: version if that makes a difference.  Prompt repply needed due to the
: fact I am on vacation in Washington and am leaving back to California
: in a week.  Today is 11/20.  Any help or comments appreciated.   A

It's not a bad price on the skimmer, but I am not overly
pleased with the skimmer itself.  One thing they don't
tell you (unlesss you call TF directly, which I did), is
that you need a BIG pump to run it properly.  They recommend
a Little Giant 3M, which is something like a $150 pump (you can
get it cheaper mail order for sure).

The documentation says you need only 200-300 gph to make the 
skimmer operate, but what they don't tell you is that you need 
5-6lbs of pressure to make the venturi work right.

If I had known in advance, I would have given the Top Fathom 
a wide miss.

-Kerry

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Stephen Parry)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: TF200 Skimmer Set-up
Date: 24 Nov 1995 13:51:35 -0800

[email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL) wrote:

>$200 sounds a bit high but I have not priced skimmers in a while. I
>got my TF 400 for about $250 on sale. :) One of the sets of
>instructions should recommend a pump. I set up a friend's TF 200
>with an Eheim 1060 and it works fairly well. (I have not heard form
>him in a while so I don't know how it is working out right now.
>I'll email and ask. I just set it up on the first day and got it
>running. Now that the skimmer is cured he may be able to evaluate
>the pump/skimmer combo for us)

I initially had my TF200 set up with and Eheim 1060, but it really
didn't work too well. TF sent me a new set-up sheet dated June '95
which lists the TF200 as needing 250 to 400 gph, and at least 7
psi. The Eheim 1060 is rated at 580 gph (at 0ft head), but only 10ft
maximum head, I don't think it's designed to work into a lot of
backpressure. On the phone TF recommended pumps that are more
powerful than you would expect from the data sheet, Little Giant
3MDQ (725 gph, 18ft max head), or 4 MDQ (875 gph, 24ft max head).

My TF200 is now working very well driven by a Hydrothrustor P102E
rated 500 gph, 22ft max head. This pump maintains a high flow
at higher pressures. (It also has minimal heating effect and
and is relatively quiet.)

The skimmer is solidly constructed, I think the efficiency of the
the venturi could be improved (I'm going to try an aftermarket
one when I get around to it) and the plumbing configuration
was inconvenient and looked inefficient so I changed it;

Before           To top inlet
                    | |
                    | |
                    | |
                    | |
                    |  ------
                    |  ------ to venturi
                    | |
                    | |
                    | |
                 From pump

After             To top inlet
                    | |
                    | |
                    | |
                    | |
               -----   ------
 From Pump     -------------- to venturi

Stephen

*******************************************************************
From [email-masked] Fri Dec  1 07:36:11 1995
Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 07:32:59 -0500
From: [email-masked] (Sean MacPhee)
To: [email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL)
Subject: Re: Hi & Check this out

BTW, got the thing from TF today, here is what it essentially looks like

This isn't to scale, it is about 8" tall I think, that is what Eric said, and
you shove it down to the bottom then pull it up so that the rubber gasket
flips to seal it.  However, I don't think it is doing any good.  I still have
the problem, but not as bad mind you.  Going to call Eric back, and tell him
today.

 |                           |
 |                           |
 |                           |
 |    ###################    | # = Eggcrate
 |    |                 |    |
 |    |                 |    |
 |    |                 |    |
 |    |*****************|    | * = Bioballs
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|  --+------
 |    |*****************|    |  <- Venturi in
 |    |*****************|  --+------
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |    |*****************|    |
 |----###################----| <- Rubber washer
 |                           |
 |                           |
 |                           |  |OUT|
 |                           |  | ^ |
 |@@@@@@@@@+-----------------+--+   |
 |@@@@@@@@@|                 |      |
 |@@@@@@@@@|     +-----------+------+
 |@@ PVC @@|     |@@@@@@@@@@@|
 |@SHAVINGS|     |@@@@@@@@@@@|
 |@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@|
 +---------------------------+

------------------------------------------------------------------
 Sean MacPhee
 [email-masked] - #include <std.disclaimer.h>
 "I'm gonna buy me a river someday and I will escape..." ~ PERSONA

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Dale Thompson)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Rio 2000 power heads?
Date: 2 Dec 1995 13:25:23 GMT

>   George Valiquette <[email-masked]> writes:
>  I have purchased a Sanders WT 350 skimmer and found to my surprise that
>  it requires a fairly high volume of water through it (1200 l/h).  There 
>  is some backpressure involved and the cheapest power head with the specs s
>  seems to be the RIO 2100.  Has anyone had bad luck with these? Are there
>  alternatives?
>  
>>>>
I also have a Sanders and have never been able to get the venturi
to work.  The problem I had is that the Sanders Input/output ports
are I believe Metric.  So the flex tubing I used is either to big or to
small, you need a clamp to hold it in place which I am reluctant to
use in a SW setup.  I tried this exact same thing and the fitting
that comes with the Rio just blows off because of the pressure.
I ended up kludging a 1/2" PVC fitting to it and then trying to
modify the Sanders to accept the same - didnt work, to much
pressure and it blew apart, I just didnt trust it to run unattended.

I have ended up using the airstones and modifying the Sanders
so it really is different, higher thru-put, greater air etc.  It works ok
but if I were to do it again, I'd opt for a Top Fathom or something
similar.  

Good Luck

Dale Thompson
[email-masked]

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (MBoley4423)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Which is better skimmer: Red Sea Berlin or Top Fathom?
Date: 9 Dec 1995 21:17:19 -0500

I have both skimmers. The top fathom is the 220(24x 6.5"). I like the top
fathom better because there is so much more surface area of bibbles. I'm
not convinced the berlin is as good as advertised. Don't listen to those
who tell you the berlin can be run with a Rio 2100. If you have detailed
questins , fire away.

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Gary V. Deutschmann, Sr.)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Looking for Tunze owners.
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 19:17:25 GMT

[email-masked] wrote:

>Anybody using a Tunze Skimmer out there? I would like to hear how well it
>compares to the competitors. I cant see how it can be so efficient with a
>vertical column so short. Comments?

>Kai
Hi Kai

I had a Turbelle horizontal unit manufactured by Tunze for quite a few
years.  It was the best skimmer I ever had, It was also the most
expensive skimmer I ever owned.

I have plenty of space, thus I do not need to pay the high price for
compactness.  In fact, all of my pumps, filters, sumps, etc. have a
room to themselves.  I now use mostly home brew skimmers, but of the
store bought models, I have been staying with Sander.

If money and space are not a concern the new EPS skimmer just about
tops the Turbelle in performance.  However, EPS want's to recover his
entire R&D costs on his first batch of skimmers, so the price is
higher than the Turbelle, which is self powered by the way.

TTUL
Gary

NEW! from 'Reef And Invert Aquarium Resources'
    The 'DI & TWP CYLINDER RECHARGING KIT'
  See 'alt.aquaria.marketplace' for details!
       or e-mail to [email-masked]

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Richard R. Hardy)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: Which is better skimmer: Red Sea Berlin or Top Fathom?
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:33:33 -0500

I have the Red Sea Berlin and am very happy with it.  I DOES need a large
pump to work well (I have a Little Giant MDQ4 split, part to skimmer, part
return to tank from sump).  Once it is plumbed properly it's really simple
to maintain/clean and very reliable.  Fine for a 55g, not sure whether it
would be enough with much larger tanks.  And it fits in the cabinet under
my reef, out of sight!
____________________________________________________________________________
Richard R. Hardy                       Member, Institute for Cancer Research           
Fox Chase Cancer Center                Tel:    (215) 728-2463
7701 Burholme Ave.                     FAX:    (215) 728-2412
Philadelphia, PA 19111                 E-MAIL: [email-masked]
u****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Craig Bingman)
Subject: Re: Protien skimmers???
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 21:36:36 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
Kerry M Miller <[email-masked]> wrote:
>MERRILL COHEN ([email-masked]) wrote:
>[snip]
>: ETS is good also, but
>: several friends have had them flood the floor. 
>[snip]

>This is the first I have heard of this.  Could you 
>give us the gory details, please?

This is why the skimmer is built so that it can be "pressurized."  There
is an optional waste collection container with a float valve (actually
a ping-pong ball) that shuts down the air flow through the skimmer when
the collection container is full.

I've not heard of the collection container failing.

Earlier models were not pressurized, and yes, there were some substantial
floods when the skimmer broke in and starting producing tons of thin 
skimmate.  It takes a few days for them to prime and settle into a stable 
steady-state.  Once they are tuned, they tend to be quite stable.

Craig

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Michael C. Moore)
Newsgroups: sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: Skimmer Pro-Twin I
Date: Thu, 14 Dec 95 19:34:32 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,
   Marcelo Nogueira <[email-masked]> wrote:
>That Fish Place advertises a skimmer called "Pro-Twin I" in its
>Fall 1995 catalog (catalog supplement October/November/December
>1995). The skimmer picture is shown on page 42.
>My question is, does anyone has information about it.
>I want to buy a skimmer for my tank, but i don't want to hang
>one in the back of the tank and my wet/dry does not alot
>space to put a skimmer inside.
>any help is appreciated.
>tnx
>marcelo

Debron Aquatics used to sell this skimmer.  When I asked about buying one, 
they recommended against it saying it was pretty worthless - in the same class 
as the skilter.  Pretty strong recommendation when a dealer discourages you 
from buying something.  This was a while back and it may have been redesigned 
since then.  You might be much better off with something like the CPR SR2 (in 
sump version of their popular backpak) which also sits in the sump and does 
not take up much room.  
>

                Michael C. Moore
                Tempe, AZ
                aomcm @ asuvm.inre.asu.edu

"If the road to excellence were not so difficult,
  it would not be travelled by so few"  Spinoza

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Craig Bingman)
Subject: Re: Does ETS protien skimmer oxygenate?
Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 20:49:00 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Bruce <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Since the ETS skimmer does not use venturi or airstones, I don't see
>how it can oxygenate the water.  I am looking for the best skimmer out
>there but want to also have dissolved oxygen levels in my water.  

It draws a Lot of air through the water, more than a venturi skimmer
being run with a comparable pump.  

The air is drawn into the skimmer by what is called the downdraft 
effect.  One can also think of the diffuser column as somewhat comparable 
to a venturi valve.  It doesn't clog with calcium carbonate the way
a venturi will in a reef tank.  

Achieving saturation with dissolved oxygen is not difficult.  Most reef 
tanks will be saturated with oxygen, even those with relatively weak 
skimmers.

Getting carbon dioxide into and out of the tank is more of a challenge, 
simply because there is relatively little of it in air (substantially 
less than 0.1% CO2 compared to roughly twenty percent molecular oxygen) and 
because the demand for CO2 can be quite large (photosynthesis and 
limewater both require CO2, respiration produces CO2, the balance comes 
from or goes to the air) and the downdraft diffuser seems to do a good 
job of facilitating this.

Craig

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Anthony Tse)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria,sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: Does ETS protien skimmer oxygenate?
Date: 17 Dec 1995 06:12:11 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Bruce <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Since the ETS skimmer does not use venturi or airstones, I don't see
>how it can oxygenate the water.  I am looking for the best skimmer out
>there but want to also have dissolved oxygen levels in my water.  

     The ETS does a better job at gas exchange then anything I have
ever seen.

     Someone recommanded Klaes and a Tunze in some other post about
skimmer and placed the ETS as just being good.  I don't know how
anyone can put a Tunze in the same sentence with a big Klaes and an
ETS.  (I have seen all three in operation, and used 2 of them).

-Anthony

****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Danny Hogan)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria
Subject: Re: PROTEIN SKIMMER?
Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 15:36:03 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:

> I have a 55 gallon salt water tank.  I am wondering what   good a
protein skimmer would do me
> Please respond with any help you could give me in regards to a protein
skimmer.  Thanks in advance!
> Kyle VanderHoek
> e-mail to; [email-masked]
> 

Kyle,

I have a large Emperor Aquatics skimmer that works great on a 75 gallon
reef.  I haven't had any problem with it in the last year and paid around
$150 for it.  Although I have heard that the Top Fanthom skimmers or the
smaller Tunze skimmers work well too.  A local vendor in town has his
tanks running solely with some large Top Fanthom skimmers and says they're
great skimmers.  So, I can't complain with my Emperor Aqautics skimmer,
but check out the Top Fanthom.  Hope this helps.

DH

-- 
Danny Hogan                      |  University of North Carolina at Charlotte
                                            |  Charlotte, NC
[email-masked]              |  http://www.vnet.net/users/dhogan/
[email-masked]

**************************************************************

From [email-masked] Thu Jan  4 13:36:45 1996
From: Kristi Bittner <[email-masked]>
Subject: skimmer archive
To: [email-masked]
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 96 10:32:24 PST

Jeff, in case you didn't see this one... here's something specifically
on the TF 500 dual venturi model.  Sounds like TF did an 'oops'!
Kristi
--------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Paris <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: protein skimmers/big reef
Date: 03 Jan 1996 17:30:08 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, Robert Schuh <[email-masked]> writes:

> I can suggest the new TopFathom TF500A. It is 67" tall and 61/2" in diam. 

I've talked extensively with someone who recently bought a Top Fathom
dual venturi skimmer, almost certainly this model. The design really
sucks. Because it doesn't operate the venturis on a closed loop within
the skimmer, it requires you to have a very high throughput through
the skimmer for the venturis to produce many bubbles. But skimmers
operate more efficiently with slower throughputs. There were also
serious problems with the skimmer's introducing hoards of bubbles into
the tank. You'd think they could work out these fundamental design
issues before taking people's money.

--
Chris Paris <[email-masked]>    Support censorship -- go to CMU
For information see http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Web/People/kcf/censor/

*****************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Lmerc9)
Newsgroups: alt.aquaria,rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: E T S skimmers...are they really THAT goo
Date: 3 Jan 1996 10:51:54 -0500

Yes they are really good skimmers however, they are very expensive and
require that you buy a seperate extremely powerful pump for them to
operate at full potential. The idea is to  create a downdraft in the
chamber with the bioballs and this creates the foam. I have an ETS 800 and
it does perform very well. My problem with this and many other devices is
the prices that these manufacturers are charging and some of these
pseudo-scientist that write reviews for the "journals". They all imply
that if you don't get the latest and most expensive piece of equipment for
your tank you won't succeed. They based their opinions on what they
observe subjectively and not on actual research other that setting one up
and watching it. I have used and built many skimmers since I started in
this hobby many years ago and have to say that they all work. Some better
than others but all will pick up alot of crud from your tank. I would wait
to buy an ETS untill the prices fell a little which they should do in a
short time. It is also not hard to build one yourself if you are handy.
Throwing money at a reef tank does not assure you of success. Patience,
hard work and carefull observation are what really pay off. Lee Chin Eng
didn't have skimmers or metal halide lights when he ran his natural live
rock and sand aquaria. If you can afford an ETS and don't mind paying alot
of money for an acrylic box with two tubes sticking out of it then go
ahead and buy one, they won't let you down. But don't buy it because
someone says that this is it and all the other skimmers don't work
anymore, It is not true.
Good Luck,
Luis

*********************************************************

From: Joshua Rabinek <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Visa Therm Protein Skimmer
Date: Sat, 06 Jan 96 10:04:39 PDT

In Article<[email-masked]>, <[email-masked]> 
write:
> From: [email-masked] (Ken)
> Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
> Subject: Visa Therm Protein Skimmer
> Date: Wed, 03 Jan 1996 06:05:04 -0500
> 
> Does anybody have any experience with the Visatherm Protein skimmer?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Ken

They are junk, avoid them like the black plague!

						Josh

******************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Craig Bingman)
Subject: Re: E T S skimmers...are they really THAT goo
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:03:37 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Lmerc9 <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Yes they are really good skimmers however, they are very expensive and
>require that you buy a seperate extremely powerful pump for them to
>operate at full potential. The idea is to  create a downdraft in the
>chamber with the bioballs and this creates the foam. I have an ETS 800 and
>it does perform very well. My problem with this and many other devices is
>the prices that these manufacturers are charging and some of these
>pseudo-scientist that write reviews for the "journals". They all imply
>that if you don't get the latest and most expensive piece of equipment for
>your tank you won't succeed. They based their opinions on what they
>observe subjectively and not on actual research other that setting one up
>and watching it. 

Odd.  I've never seen anyone imply that if you don't buy an ETS, your
aquarium will not succeed.  FWIW, I've looked at the water quality in
Greg's tank, and it has the clearest (absence of appreciable colored
organics into the far UV) of any system that I've examined.  The
reactive phosphate concentration is barely at the limit of detection
with a decent spectrophotometer (~0.01 mg/L with a DR/2000) 

Certainly the ETS isn't solely responsible for this, but it does 
collect an enormous amount of highly colored and extremely odorous
skimmate.  The systems have an enormous fish load on them (by reef
tank standards) and they are completely free of nuisance algae
(unless you get out your magnifying glass, and then you will find
traces of turf algaes.)

> But don't buy it because
>someone says that this is it and all the other skimmers don't work
>anymore, It is not true.

No one ever said that.... sorry.

Craig

******************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (David Turnbull)
Subject: Re: red sea pharm   berlin  skimmer
Date: Mon, 8 Jan 1996 16:02:42 GMT

[email-masked] (I wuz kul2) wrote:
>red sea pharm   berlin  skimmer
>comments  on this product here wold help me greatly
>
>speciffically   will it effectively skim a180gal reef setup in the berlin/
>NNR style?

I have this skimmer on my 90 gal. mostly fish tank with 75 lbs. of
live rock.  I can not comment on it's effectiveness in your situation,
but I can say it works good for me.

There are some things you should know about this skimmer.  The
releasing agent (use in molding the acrylic) takes a couple days to
wear off.  It is non-toxic but will preventing any skimming.

Get a good pump!  I had a Rio 2500HP but it was not very good for this
skimmer (and loud under all that load).  I now use a Eheim 1060 and
have had no trouble.  Red Sea also had suggested the Mag Drive 5 when
I called them.

******************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (David Turnbull)
Subject: Re: Berlin Red Sea Pro. Skim. ???
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 20:31:30 GMT

[email-masked] (Scott) wrote:

>Please correct me if I'm wrong.. but was told that if I remove the
>center glass tube from the skimmer it works better.. more contact time
>with the bubbles.. plese let me know your experience with this if
>anyone has any....  

You are wrong.  :)  Since this skimmer is acrylic and not glass I
would guess you don't have one.

This is a fine skimmer if you have it on a good pump.  I have mine on
an Eheim 1060.  The only problem I have ever had is that it will
sometimes spew out a lot of wet foam.  Easily fixed by adjusting the
venturi inlet until the water is cleaner, then you can put it back at
full open.

I have only this skimmer and a poly filter on my tank and it is
working great.  Using 75 lbs. of live rock for biological filter.

*******************************************************************
From [email-masked] Tue Jan 30 02:13:16 1996
Date: Tue, 30 Jan 1996 02:09:33 -0500 (EST)
From: [email-masked]
Subject: Re: Protein skimmer
To: [email-masked]
X-Vms-To: in%"[email-masked]"
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

X-News: opal.tufts.edu rec.aquaria:71468

>ZI would divide skimmers up into 3
>types based on how air is introduced:
>1. venturi
>2. air stone driven
>3. downdraft 
>
>Each of these three can be co or counter current (or both). Let's see
>how your classification works out. Perhaps I'm missing something.....
>
Hi Jeff, please excuse my analness but I would like to bring your attention
to the following protein skimmers which may fall into some grey zone:

1.  CPR's BakPak's protein skimmer.  The maker calls it the 'Rejuvenation
Venturi'.  It is very special for it allows the water to be double-crossed
with the venturi and allows a small pump like the RIO 600 to be sufficient to
power this protein skimmer which is good for a 60g all-fish tank.  The skum it
skims out is extemely dark, not just a light tint of tea color like the others.

2.  Aqua Medic of Germany also has a Turboflotor skimmer which is a compact
motor driven protein skimmer.  It says in the catalog:  "air injection pump w/
Aqua Medic needle wheel, sucking in air and mixing it with water
automatically......" 

Well, I guess these 2 are enhanced venturi to be exact, huh?  What about KLAES? 
Are they any special?

Thanks!

Eddie

*********************************************************************

From: Beryl Carter <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Visi-Jet PS
Date: Sat, 03 Feb 1996 12:40:11 +0000

In article: <[email-masked]>  [email-masked] 
(Michael J. Sauer) writes:
> 
> I am curious about the Visi-Jet PS Protiem Skimmer. It is priced a lot
> lower than the other skimmers.
> 
> Does anyone have any experience with this? Please send me any info.
> 
> Thanks
> Mike
> 
> 
> 
I have had awful trouble with mine - I just can't get it to skim! In 
fact, I am going to take it apart when I strip my tank and use the 
powerhead to run the UGF instead.... Fortunately I don't have a lot of 
waste anyway.
However, I have seen postings by people who got one to work  - something 
to do with covering up part of the outflow slot, if I remember rightly.
If you can afford anything better (there is rather a price contrast!), I 
should get that instead....

-- 
Brill

*****************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (David Turnbull)
Subject: Re: [M][Q] What is a good pump for red sea skimmer?
Date: Mon, 5 Feb 1996 16:35:29 GMT

[email-masked] (Matthew Kennedy) wrote:

>I bought a red sea berlin skimmer and I am still deciding on which pump. 
>I have had three recmmendations so far Eheim 1060, Little Giant 3Q...? and
>an Iwaki.  All pump about 500-700 gph at arond 5-7 ft head.  I want a
>reasonably quiet durable pump.  Thanks for any help

I have this skimmer and I called Red Sea when I got it to find out the
recommendations.  The tech dude said they tested lots of pumps and
recommend three by name.

Eheim 1060
Mag Drive 5
Rio 2500

These pumps are suppose to operate the skimmer at optimum efficiency.
I have had my Rio 2500 on this skimmer and it is very noisy.  I use
the Rio as a water return pump and it is acceptably quiet.  I have a
Eheim 1060 running the skimmer right now and you can't hear it at all.

IMHO, the Eheim 1060 is the way to go.  Also, don't let anyone scare
you into returning the skimmer, they work great and need no adjusting
with the 1060.  Mine took almost three days to start skimming for the
first time but now it starts in a matter of hours and works great.

The only problem you may have is if you haven't been skimming (or not
well).  The skimmer will need the venturi adjusted during the first
week or so to keep gallons of wet foam from being produced.  After
things settle you can leave it fully open.

*****************************************************************

From: Andrew Preas <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: sci.aquaria
Subject: Re: skimmer adjustment
Date: 21 Feb 1996 01:40:49 GMT

I have one of the "visi-jet" skimmers on my 55 gallon fish-only tank. 
Honestly, I would not buy one again. It is forever requiring minute 
adjustments to keep the red band absolutely even with the water level in 
the tank. Too high in the water and you get no foam, too low and the cup 
immediately fills with water. When you get it adjusted right, the scum 
that collects should be a dull yellow color. Coralife makes a pretty good 
skimmer, but it requires an airstone which must be changed about once a 
month. This one requires less adjustment - I have one on my 30 gallon 
mini-reef tank, and it is doing great. It is powered by an air pump, and 
any adjustment can be made by altering the output of the pump rather than 
messing with the skimmer itself. This is far easier. They can be had for 
about $50. Although, if you are only going to keep fish, the skimmer is 
not absolutely necessary. Nitrates can be controlled with regular filter 
maintenance and water changes. Best of luck - with a little regular 
attention, salt water fishkeeping is a very rewarding hobby.

*****************************************************************

I have a Tunze model 3115 vertical mount venturi skimmer. I have found the
Tunze to be very effecient skimmers which produce a very dry foam. These
skimmers because of the way they skim the water do not destroy a lot of
plankton in the process and 
this makes the foam a little lighter in color than other skimmers at the
beginnning. The plankton that get sheared in other skimmers causes the
really bad smell and dark green color along  with the algae that is also
skimmed. This skimmer uses a method called contact skimming to push the
plankton away from the intake of the pump. They are very effecient and
quiet. I highly recommend it.

***********************************************************************

i think it's great that you want to put together a ps web page - thanks 
for doing it!. potentially it can help a lot of people. i have ran 3 
skimmers in my 50g s/w tank. the first was a rectangular (sorry, but i 
can't remember the brand - i'll ask at the store where i bought it and 
let you know) skimmer ($100) with a sort of latter for the bubbles to 
follow up. it hung on the back and was driven by an airstone. the waste 
generally collected at the top of the skimmer - almost none of it 
overflowed like it was supposed to. the consistancy of the waste was
like a really thick dark green/brown algae coating. it was very simple 
to remove the skimmer and clean it with a paper towel. the nice thing 
about this one was that once it was running it took no adjustments - it 
was a simple, easy to operate unit. if you don't mind the fact that it 
doesn't overflow then it's pretty good. the second skimmer was a cheap ($15)
cylindrical lee that fit inside the sump of the w/d compartment in the back.
the waste that collected in the cup was a pea green color with the waste
having the consistancy of water. all you had to do to clean it was remove
the cup and rinse it out. it took constant adjustments to run at all and
basically goes under the heading of "you get what you pay for". the third
skimmer is a sea quest. it is a venturi driven, cylindrical, hang on the
back, expensive (it cost $200 and it required a $75 rio pump) unit. once all
the leaks were fixed and once the veturi valve was unclogged and once the
cracked bottom was replced it produced a dark green/brown muck in the cup
and a thick layer of algae-like scum on the inside surface of the top of the
cylinder. aside from regular cleaning (which is easy enough) it runs
maintenance-free and my feeling is that it does a great job of removing waste. 

rectangular skimmer - recommended
cheapo lee - not recommended
sea quest - recommended

one last thing - i hope you can mention that sea quest, although 
being one of the most expensive on the market, required 4 trips back to 
the fish store for repairs to get it running. obviously their quality 
control is severely lacking. i hope this helps - and thanks again      
Greg

I don't want to achieve immortality through my work,
I want to achieve immortality by not dying

*********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (SUSRHALL)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Amiracle Hurricane Skimmers and Berlin Method
Date: 19 May 1996 18:55:44 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)

yes, yes ,  yes.  I was running my 60g fully stocked tank for @ 3 years
with only an Amiracle p.s. (and the smaller one  at that).  I did a water
change about once every 9 months or  so just to replenish unidentified
trace minerals but otherwise just used RO to compensate for evaporation. 
How did my tank look?  Well, I sold it because I had to move to another
state, but the guy  who bought it from me paid a local fish store owner
(whom I  respect) and he told me it was one of the nicest tanks he had
ever seen.  All he could say was congratulation on your success!  There
was no macroagae to be seen, I had starburst polyps growing over 50% of
the back wall of my tank, yellow leathers, bubble corals, brains, a huge
elegance, a huge flowerpot which lasted well over a year which if you know
 anything about flowerpots, is impressive.  The bottom line, Amiracle
protein skimmers are a good buy for the price.  And before everyone flames
my opinion, yes T.F or Red Sea are better relatively speaking, the
Amiracles do the job for me, and I have the results to prove it.  
           pOpTongK
     send replies to: [email-masked]

*********************************************************************

From: William Horst <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Suggestion for protein Skimmer???
Date: 20 May 1996 20:06:52 GMT

I currently have a 22" Amircale CC Skimmer running for a 55 gallon reef. 

I am looking for a GOOD Skimmer, I do NOT have a Sump. The CC Skimmer is 
not doing a good enough job. I posted a message a month ago and got no 
response. I am trying to buy the best Skimmer for my Money, I do not want 
to get ripped off. Any help would be appreciate Please EMail me. 

Thanks, Bill

-- 
"People who feel good about themselves produce good results."

Check out my Web Page " http://www.user.fast.net/~bhorst

My Web page has some pictures and information of my Rabbits and 
my Marine Fish and Reefs, Memory Forsale.

******************************************************************

From [email-masked] Fri Jun 14 19:58:02 1996
From: Kristi Bittner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Turboflotor Skimmer
To: [email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL)
Date: Fri, 14 Jun 96 16:57:33 PDT
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

Information on the Turboflotor Skimmer, out of Germany (Aqua Medic),
and the use of pegged or needle impellers:

>From [email-masked] Tue Jun 11 14:40 PDT 1996
Message-Id: <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 1996 17:34:25 -0400
From: Jean Pierre REDEUILH <[email-masked]>
To: Kristi Bittner <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Turboflotor vs. CPR skimmers

Kristi Bittner wrote:
> 
> In article <[email-masked]> you wrote:
> : Adam H. Whitlock wrote:
> : >
> : > Does anyone have personal experience with either the Turboflotor 1000 or
> : > CPR in-sump protein skimmers?  The Turboflotor claims to need no adjusting
> : > while pulling out less beneficial plankton.  The CPR, on the other hand,
> : > appears to be quite a simple, reliable design with space for special media.
> : >  I've looked at the various protein skimmer reviews around the Web, but
> : > can't find anything on these two makes (one is new; maybe both are).  If
> : > you have one and would be willing to give a testimonial, I would be
> : > extremely grateful!
> : >
> : > Thanks,
> : > Adam
> : I do have the turboflotor 1000 since about one year with my 180
> : reef.This skimmer is made in Germany and the process of skimming was
> : describe in Sprung & D.book in the part about the skimmers,the needle
> : weel kind describe as a new technology,able to skim less good trace
> : elements compare to the traditionels models.This happens because with
> : this unit who use a Rio 2100 with a special impeller, the bubbles are
> : all the time very tiny and at the same size --> dry foam.The skimmer by
> : itself is like a Red sea but modified (some are saying than the
> : developper of those two skimmers is the same )and yes you do not need to
> : reajust it .The only bad part about it is than if you plan to use ozone
> : with it ,no way.For me it does day after day a perfect job on my 180. I
> : have to say that I had the Red sea during about 10 monthes,and I was
> : happy with this unit until this Turb.1000 appear on the German
> : market and I prefer it (no more adjustments,very dry foam ..) So
> : well,you know what I think about this skimmer.Fell free to contact me
> : for more informations.
> 
> Thank you for this information!  I currently have a Red Sea skimmer, and
> like it.  I am using it with an Eheim 1060 water pump, and I think it
> would do better with a bigger, stronger pump.  What size pump were you
> using when you had the Red Sea skimmer?  It is nice that the
> Turbofloter can use a smaller (Rio 2100?) pump.
> 
> Thanks, in advance,
> 
> --
> Kristi Bittner
> 
> [email-masked]
> or occasionally:  [email-masked]

Hi Kristi,
I did use the Red Sea with an Iwaki WMD 30 RLT.But I was tired to 
reajust the venturi after water changes,etc (what you already know due 
to the fact you have one) and by the power consumption of the IWAKI ( 
even if it is not too much it is still more than a Rio 2100 ).So, during 
a trip to Munich, i saw this Turb.skimmer and I did remember the article 
by Julian Sprung in his book,saying than it was a new technologie in the 
way of skimming,using really thin and constant bubbles.I did pay for it 
the equivalent of $ 180.00 (+ 40.00 in US for the Rio pump because in 
Germany they run in 220v) and I was able to sell my Red Sea + Iwaki for 
more than that.And believe me, I do not regret it (prove is than 
yesterday I did buy an other one for a new tank thru Pet Gallery Phone 
(423)477.2923 for 229.00 + Shipping,was include everything and the 
pump).But if you want to have the best out of the Red Sea,buy a big pump.
If you need more,you got my email
Good luck
JP

***************************************************************************

From: [email-masked]
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.tech,rec.aquaria.marine.reefs,sci.aquaria,rec.aquaria.marketplace
Subject: Re: Source for Pegged Impeller pumps & "magnetic spinners"
Date: 23 Mar 96 01:41:38 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (Craig Bingman) writes:
>>1) I am still looking for a supplier of pegged impeller pumps. It will be
>>for use in a 4" diameter x 40" height protein skimmer. If you remember my
>>post from a while back, I read about such a pump in "The Reef Aquarium".
>>It uses the pegs on the impeller to mix air and water in the impeller
>>chamber - to be injected into the skimmer. This apparently creates an
>>extremelly rich mixture of bubbles - more efficient than a venturi. I have
>>heard of the Rio powerheads which can be retrofitted with a pegged
>>impeller. I would like to find something a little more substantial.
>
> I'd appreciate any information you have on the Rio powerheads with the
> pegged impeller, feel free to e-mail.
>
I don't know whether we are talking about the same thing but there are 2
retrofit attachment kits for the Rio powerheads 600 and 1700.

The TAAM's Pro-Twin, CPR's BakPak, U.S. Aquarium's Hang-on Venturi are all
using a modified Rio 600 powerhead called the 'rejuvenation venturi'.  The
air and water are mixed 2 times (double pass) to increase the amount of
bubbles.  That's why such a small powerhead when used in the BakPak can provide
enough skimming for a 60g marine tank.

A bigger version for the Rio 1700 powerhead is also released into the market
already.  I believe that only CPR can sell it at this moment.  I got one for my
CPR's CY-194 w/d's protein skimmer and the amount of bubbles it makes is
amazing.

In addition, the Turboflotor protein skimmer by Aqua-Medic is using a
needle-wheel Rio powerhead.  They fit this needle-wheel impeller thing into a
conventional Rio and claim to make it to produce super dry foam.  I have
not seen the real thing so I cannot tell how effective it is.  I think your
Pegged Impeller is actually this needle-wheel impeller, right?  I believe that
you can buy this needle-wheel impeller and fit it over a regular Rio.  Nekton
and DLS carry Aqua-Medic products......

Eddie

**********************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (BOB DENTON)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria
Subject: Re: Grundfost pump vs. Ventur
Date: Sun, 18 Feb 96 18:55:00 -0500

LV>In The Reef Aquarium, p. 119, D&S write:

LV>"A recent design that is gaining popularity in Germany uses a special
LV>aspirator system made from a high rpm pump and an impeller with pegs
LV>on it. Air is drawn in on the suction side of this pump, and the line
LV>is not constricted, in contrast with Venturi design. The advantages
LV>of this design are many. The pump does not need to be so large, as it
LV>does with the Venturi designn in order to develop sufficien pressure
LV>behind the constriction of the Venturi. The volume of aer drawn into
LV>the stream of water is also much greater than by Venturi. The pegs on
LV>the impeller chop the air inot fine bubbles, so this design pack
LV>skimmer with a high density of fine bubbles. It appears to be the
LV>most efficient design for mixing the most air with the water."

LV>Needless to say, I'd like to find out more about this pump. A couple
LV>months back I made a couple phone calls trying to find out about this
LV>new pump. From what I found out from "Little Fishies" (I could be
LV>wrong on the name, I believe it's J. Sprung's company) it's called a
LV>"Grundfost" pump. I was told that they are expensive, and not
LV>available in the US.

LV>Does anybody know anything about such a device? I'm very curious, and
LV>in no serious rush to get this project miediately finished. I've
LV>been working on this particular set-up for about 6 years now. Any
LV>leads greatly appreciated.

LV>Lawrence Hoffman
LV>[email-masked]

Lawrence,

I'm not familiar with the Grundfost, but there is a pegged impeller
retrofit available for the Rio 2100 (and probably the 2500) and one of
the Eheim Hobby Pumps.  They're showing up in skimmers like the
"Turbofloator 1000" advertised on page 74 of the 3/96 FAMA.  I played
around with one in a RIO 2100, but wasn't overly impressed.  You have to
run an air pump through a hole you drill in the RIO cover.  I used a
Tetra Luft pump but It couldn't handle the full Luft output.  (This pump
has a dial that controls output, so I'd recommend it if you want to play
with it.)   The retrofit cost me $15, which is probably $10 more than it
is worth.  I bought it at a pet shop in NJ.  I haven't seen anyone
advertise it mail order yet.  You might try calling That Fish Place,
Debron Aquatics, or the Pet Warehouse.

BTW, my dream skimmer is still an ETS...

Happy hunting,
Bob D.
---
 CMPQwk #1.42 UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

********************************************************************

From: tej <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: skimmer: which to buy?
Date: 11 Jul 1996 16:31:22 GMT

Robert

I just saw one of the turboflotors at a place that does mail order out of san diego near 
my home. They had one of the turboflotors running and I was very impressed with its 
performance. I need to tell you that they had a top fathom 100 running in the same 
tank that wasnt pulling out anything while the turboflotor was taking out major stuff. I 
decided to buy one even though I had a top fathom 300 on my 75 gallon reef. I removed 
the top fathom and the little giant 3, and put on the turboflotor with its rio 21 to run the 
needle wheel. You also need a very small pump to get water to the unit, I used a rio 600 
backed off, yes thats right backed off a touch. This small amount of water going 
through the skimmer concerned me since its not a huge ammount, but the bubbles are 
so small generated by the needle wheel, the contact time appears to be unbelievable. 
The guy at the place I bought it said that it may take about 2 weeks to produce 
anything and cure. Well 24 hours after I hooked the thing up, I cleaned my glass and not 
even an hour later, the turboflotor started to produce a dry foam and started pulling 
stuff out. I have only run the skimmer for about 2 days now, so I cant really tell you 
how it works in the long run, but I can tell you that my top fathom 300 took 2 weeks to 
pull anything out and it was noisy as hell. And the turboflotor is still producing a dry 
foam:)

Ted

*************************************************************

From: D. Martin Moore <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.misc,rec.aquaria.marine.reefs,rec.aquaria.misc
Subject: Re: Need INFO and HELP with Protein
Date: 22 Jul 1996 03:37:29 GMT

Gimpy <[email-masked]> wrote:

>What I need to know is what do I need to know about getting a skimmer.
>Do all of them come ready to go (meaning just plug it in and let'er rip?)
>or do I need to buy other things for it, like pumps, powerheads, etc?
>Also can anyone reccommend some good skimmers for lesser prices.  I am
>not ready to shell out $100+ for a skimmer.  Any info on types or
>approaches for shopping for skimmers would be helpful.

If you go with a counter current skimmer (usually cheaper) you'll need
at minimum a powerhead to push water through and a good airpump to produce
the foam.  I chose a US Aquarium CC skimmer for a 55g reef tank.  Size
is 6" (external- true diameter is the 4" internal tube) X 48" high.  This
is IMO the minimum size skimmer for a 55, although since there are no 
established size parameters this is only a preference.  The price, as I 
recall, was just under $100 from Debron Aquatics.  I got a Tetra Luft pump
as the specs (as published in TFP's catalog) are better than for any 
other reasonably priced pump.  Remember, you'll be pushing air into a 48" 
water column so you need a _good_ pump.

So, can you just "plug it in and let 'er rip"?  Not a chance!  It takes
quite a lot of fiddling and oftimes considerable frustration.

You may safely avoid "Skilters" and other micro/mini (=cheap) skimmers as
they're just a waste of money (although with a colored light underneath
you could create a budget version of a Lava Lamp:-) ).

Prost,

Martin

P.S. Groupers are nitrate factories and will outgrow your tank anyway, 
so why keep one?  Pan-fry that sucker!

-- 
"Fie on thee, fellow! Whence cometh these fishes?"-Scheherezade
"Any fish with good teeth is liable to use them."-Wm. T. Innes
                  [email-masked]

*******************************************************************

From: Steven Pfeiffer <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.misc,rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: What Skimmer for 55 Gallon Reef
Date: Wed, 24 Jul 1996 08:40:56 -0700

Scott J. Sipiora wrote:

> I am researching skimmers and would like to get a venturi style skimmer.
> does anyone have a reccommendation on what brand and what size?

I unfortunately cannot tell you a name of a good skimmer, all I can tell 
you is stay away from the Pro-Twin.  I have been trying to get it to work 
properly for several months now and it still never does a good job.  The 
adjustment mechanisms are bad and the results are worse.  

My advice: stay away from this cheap model, spend a few more bucks in the 
first place and you will be much happier in the long run.  I tried the 
cheap way out, and now I'm stuck with a loser skimmer and I have to go buy 
another.

Steve
[email-masked]

P.S. Anyone want to buy a slightly used protein skimmer?  Works, err... 
umm... GREAT!!  ;-)

******************************************************************

From: pRpLe <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.misc,rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: What Skimmer for 55 Gallon Reef
Date: 3 Aug 1996 00:31:02 -0700

Steven Pfeiffer <[email-masked]> wrote:
: Scott J. Sipiora wrote:

: I unfortunately cannot tell you a name of a good skimmer, all I can tell 
: you is stay away from the Pro-Twin.  I have been trying to get it to work 
: properly for several months now and it still never does a good job.  The 
: adjustment mechanisms are bad and the results are worse.  

: My advice: stay away from this cheap model, spend a few more bucks in the 
: first place and you will be much happier in the long run.  I tried the 
: cheap way out, and now I'm stuck with a loser skimmer and I have to go buy 
: another.

: Steve
: [email-masked]

heh...I made the sore mistake of purchasing an Aquarium Systems skimmer...
I think out of the 8 months I had it, I may have gotten 5-10 drops of muck
out of the thing,,,the rest of the time I spent taking it apart and
unclogging the the damn thing...(thats when I could get it to work).
I am now about to do a 125 gal. reef, and am very undecided as to the next 
one I will buy...(suggestions?)
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
jrm                                       __  __     ____  ___       ___ ____
[email-masked]                         /__)/__) / / / / /_  /\  / /_    /
                                        /   / \  / / / / /__ /  \/ /___  /-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

******************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Chris Nalley)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: skimmate characteristics
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 96 20:31:59 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] (RRT AAS) wrote:
>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
>(Chris Green) writes:
>
>>and a bunch of black liquid. This liquid is thicker than
>>water and quite dark, 
>
>I've been runnin a berlin for awhile now and I still don't feel confident
>in it.  I rely on reputation more than results in this particular case.  I
>have a very lightly stocked tank and add nothing in the way of food other
>than combisan,  So, perhaps I just don't have much to skim.  All I get is
>either the wet overflow stuff  or  set right    I coat the concentration
>chamber and bubble over lid with green sludge .  I rinse it in hot water
>once a week and go on with life.
>
>I have never made a liquid darker than lemonade
>
>Michael R. Houtz
>
>A democracy, in its simplest form, is 2 Wolves and 1 rabbit;  'Voting'  on
>what to have for lunch 

I also run a RSB skimmer.  Mine pulls a cup full of the stankest smelling 
filthy stencht of dark,dark green stuff about every 3-4 days.   This
is in a VERY lightly load 55g.  

I could only imagine what the tank would look/smell like if i didnt have this
skimmer on it.

BTW>  Ive modified mine a little.  Its hooked into a Little Giant 4MDSX pump
with aproxx 150 gal/hr running thru the skimmer.  I took off the hose barbs on
the two out flows at the top of the skimmer and replaced them with
3/4 male pipe thread to 1/2" pvc adaptor,  then a 1/2" tee with one tee 
pointing straight up and the other tee pointing striaght down, with
an approx 12" length of 1/2" pvc to the bottom of the sump the skimmer sits
in.  This allows me to run the skimmer full tilt without the outflows making
that gurgling sound they did when i had vinyl host connected to the hose 
barbs.  If you want more info about the mod, email me :)

                Chris.

******************************************************************

Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 10:35:39 -0600
From: Jim Perry <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: Berlin skimmer problem

Rich L. Seleznov wrote:
> 
> I have recently purchased a Berlin Skimmer and have found that it takes 3
> days to produce foam after interrupting its operation for any period of
> time. It seems that it takes that long for the fractionation to work. I am
> using a RIO 2500 which seems to be O.K.. After the 3 days, it produces a
> medium brown liquid in the collection cup. I have wondered about the need
> for a more powerful pump. I have not tried supplementing with an air pump,
> but that's an interesting idea.
> 
> John Williams <[email-masked]> wrote in article
> <[email-masked]>...
> >
> >       I have a Red Sea Berlin protein skimmer powered by a Mag 5
> > submersible pump that seems to be having a problem.  No foam is reaching
> > the top off the collection cup (wet foam, or otherwise).  I just put in
> > 65lbs. of live rock, so there should be plenty of crud to remove, but no
> > luck removing any of it.  I've tried adjusting the air intake from almost
> 
> > nonexistant to full open, but I still get nothing.  Anybody have any
> > suggestions as to what the problem might be?

My Berlin did not produce when I had 1" tubes on 
the output fittings going to the sump.  I tried 
everything I could think of.  Finally I put the 
skimmer in the sump (no small project) so there is 
NOTHING connected to the output (it just pours 
into the sump), and lo and behold, some gunk is 
produced.  I still am not at all happy with the 
output of the Berlin.  I think it is over-rated.

jim

*****************************************************

From: [email-masked] (ASHAF7160)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: ETS/Amiracle Skimmers.
Date: 13 Aug 1996 18:46:17 -0400

 > Hi everyone, (Especially Craig). 
 > 
 > A few people here in Australia seem to be showing some interest in
 > the ETS and Amiracle Skimmers and one shop is interested in
 > importing them. 
 > 
 > What I'm trying to find out is. 
 > 
 > 1. What is the Amiracle skimmer like? I'd appreciate any 
 >    experiences that people may have had/heard about this 
 >    Skimmer. 
 > 
 > 2. How does the ETS Skimmer work? 
 > 
 > And where could I get info on the above two units, especially the
 > ETS Skimmer. 
 > 
 > -Frankie

I am currently using and ETS skimmer an it has made all the difference. 
It works using a down draft design,  Where a powerful pump forces water
down a long tube filled with bio balls.  This causes a foaming action that
is superior in volume of foam created as well as volume of water skimmed. 
It is awesome!  I can't say enough for the design of this product.  It has
completely changed my success rates with SPS corals.

Andrew

************************************************

From: [email-masked] (brian jeung)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Top Fathom Skimmers
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 1996 16:09:20 -0800

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
(Thomas Debenedictis) wrote:

> I have read that alot of people are happy with Top Fathom protien 
> skimmers.I have a D&D  Marine ( The Beast) that Iam not happy with .It 
> produces hardly no dry foam and its powered by a 4MDSC( 765gph 6ft head).
> So I wasted $200.
> But now where do I get a TF skimmer ? I haven't seen them in any store or 
> any catalog. Can someone tell me where I can get one. Or if you have one 
> can you give me the address. Also if you are knowledgable tell me which 
> model. I
> currently have a 55 gal but if I can get this stuff down I want to get a 
> 200 gal. I appreciate any time in response!
>                                                     Tom DeBenedictis
>                                                       New York 

I've been very happy with my TF skimmer (110<-I think). They changed the
design and the new models are designed to stop the skimmer from
overflowing (such as when you add buffers to the tank).

I purchased mine from a local fish store (west coast) but I know Reef
Science International sells them. Also Top Fathom has a web site that has
info on all their models.

-brian

********************************************************

From: Bill Davies <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Top Fathom Skimmers
Date: 15 Aug 1996 16:46:57 GMT

[email-masked] (brian jeung) wrote:
>In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
>(Thomas Debenedictis) wrote:
>
>> I have read that alot of people are happy with Top Fathom protien 
>> skimmers.I have a D&D  Marine ( The Beast) that Iam not happy with .It 
>> produces hardly no dry foam and its powered by a 4MDSC( 765gph 6ft head).
>> So I wasted $200.
>> But now where do I get a TF skimmer ? I haven't seen them in any store or 
>> any catalog. Can someone tell me where I can get one. 

snip
I have an older TF200 (uses a ball valve to control output) that I am very happy with. Not sure if TF sells direct but I have talked=
 to them on the phone directly about sizing pumps. I find most retailers recommend undersized pumps for any venturi skimmers & you g=
et a different story talking to the skimmer mfg. Your 4MDSC is what TF recommends for the TF200 (25"tall, 6"dia rated to 200gal tank=
). I use two 2MDSCs, one for the venturi and one for the counter flow. In addition to RSI, Florida Aqua Farms sells these skimmers. =
They are at 904/567-8540.

cheers,
Bill

******************************************************

From: Jeff Majdali <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Top Fathom Skimmers
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 1996 23:04:26 -0700

brian jeung wrote:
> 
> In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked]
> (Thomas Debenedictis) wrote:
> 
> > I have read that alot of people are happy with Top Fathom protien
> > skimmers.I have a D&D  Marine ( The Beast) that Iam not happy with .It
> > produces hardly no dry foam and its powered by a 4MDSC( 765gph 6ft head).
> > So I wasted $200.
> > But now where do I get a TF skimmer ? I haven't seen them in any store or
> > any catalog. Can someone tell me where I can get one. Or if you have one
> > can you give me the address. Also if you are knowledgable tell me which
> > model. I
> > currently have a 55 gal but if I can get this stuff down I want to get a
> > 200 gal. I appreciate any time in response!
> >                                                     Tom DeBenedictis
> >                                                       New York
> 
> I've been very happy with my TF skimmer (110<-I think). They changed the
> design and the new models are designed to stop the skimmer from
> overflowing (such as when you add buffers to the tank).
> 
> I purchased mine from a local fish store (west coast) but I know Reef
> Science International sells them. Also Top Fathom has a web site that has
> info on all their models.
> 
> -brian

Jeff's Exotic Fish also carries them and has them on sale. The address 
is http://www.cyberverse.com/~jeff/skimmer.html
I use the 500 series Top Fathom Skimmer myself and think it's the best. 
I also have a ETS running on a diffrent system. When it comes to cost 
and results for what you pay, I now wish I had bought a second Top 
Fathom Skimmer.
                                              Jeff

******************************************************************

From: [email-masked] (RRT AAS)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Berlin skimmer problem
Date: 15 Aug 1996 06:07:37 -0400

>My Berlin did not produce when I had 1" tubes on 
>the output fittings going to the sump.  I tried 
>everything I could think of.  Finally I put the 
>skimmer in the sump (no small project) so there is 
>NOTHING connected to the output (it just pours 
>into the sump), and lo and behold, some gunk is 
>produced.  I still am not at all happy with the 
>output of the Berlin.  I think it is over-rated.
>
>

I think its over-rated too,   but mine produces alot more than what you
describe, perhaps there is some basic flaw in the flow of water thru the
RSB in your setup

What I really don't like is that when you get enough water kicking thru it
so that it skimms right , then the bell is no longer effective at keeping
bubbles from returning to the sump

Michael R. Houtz

A democracy, in its simplest form, is 2 Wolves and 1 rabbit;  'Voting'  on
what to have for lunch 

*********************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Ben Margolin)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Emperor aquatics series 2 skimmer evaluation
Date: Thu, 15 Aug 96 18:34:43 GMT

A while back several people emailed me to ask how I liked my Emperor Aquatics 
#2 venturi skimmer.  At the time that tank was relatively new, and didn't 
contain much in the way of organic-producing critters.  It's a few months 
later, and I feel I can give a bit better opinion now.  I'm posting it to the 
group because that's where the discussion started, and I didn't save the 
emails I was sent so I don't know who to reply to privately.  Perhaps some 
other people will benefit from this as well.  Maybe Jeff Pfohl could add it to 
his archive.

First, let me describe my set up a bit:  20g long display tank, bottom 
drilled, 1 drain and 2 returns.  Drops 3' to a 10g (or so) custom acylic sump, 
and the intake to the skimmer pump (Supreme mag drive #5) is plumbed on the 
bottom of the sump, in the "first section".  (The pump is lower than the 
_bottom_ water level in the sump).  The skimmer sits about 4" above the shelf 
floor, so the water return exits directly into the sump (a direct line, no 
bends).  Mine has 1" exit, unlike the 5/8 their drawing specifies (it came 
that way from the factory).  The skimmate goes down about 16" of tubing to a 
small plastic food storage thingy suspended under the bottom of the main tank.

Ok, enough of that:  here's the part you want to know... it skims well.  I was 
really concerned, for the first few weeks I got nothing, really nothing.  Then 
I got a brownish tint to the foam in the viewable chamber.  Then the whole 
chamber got kinda brown.  Now I get about 1/4cup of nice dark brown 
(dark chocolate colored) skimmate each day.  It's still kinda wet, but I think 
I could get a little drier just but lowering the water level a little.  I'm 
quite satisfied with it's performance.  Immediate effects after any kind of 
feeding, etc.

I picked this skimmer because it looked "big enough" but also met my other 
criteria:  venturi and ozone-safe.  I don't use ozone, but think I might one 
day, and didn't want to spend good money (pump & skimmer were about $140) on 
something I wouldn't be able to use in a year.  Basically, I got the 
best-looking (features-wise) skimmer I could afford at the time.  Now, I might 
buy an ETS or something, but it still wouldn't fit under my tank :)

Just FYI, I guess I should also mention that I am in no way affiliated with 
Emperor Aquatics except that I own one of their skimmers and am happy with it. 
I also don't have experience with owning any other skimmers, but I've seen 
firsthand many others and the results they produce (ETS, Red Sea, Tunze, CPR, 
Coralife, The Beast, various noname brands) and find the EA #2 does a very 
nice job for the price.

Ben Margolin

  _________________________ ___________________________ ________________
 / Ben 'B-Side' Margolin   | FMEAplus Development Team | Standard dis-  \
 \[email-masked]|_Ford Motor Company________|_claimers apply_/

*********************************************

From: [email-masked] (Wdbrink)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Emperor aquatics series 2 skimmer evaluation
Date: 18 Aug 1996 11:24:33 -0400

=Just FYI, I guess I should also mention that I am in no =way affiliated
with 
=Emperor Aquatics except that I own one of their =skimmers and am happy
with it. 
=I also don't have experience with owning any other =skimmers, but I've
seen 
=firsthand many others and the results they produce (ETS, =Red Sea, Tunze,
CPR, 
=Coralife, The Beast, various noname brands) and find the ==EA #2 does a
very 
=nice job for the price.

I agree. I have a series one hang on the back from Emperor Equatics run by
a Rio 2100 that puts out a lot of brown junk every day from my 55 g.  It
has been a great skimmer for the price. I reccomemd it.

Will B

Ben Margolin

*********************************************

From: James  Barone <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Turboflotor
Date: 19 Aug 1996 14:28:15 GMT

Ken <[email-masked]> wrote:
>What experiences has people had with this skimmer? I've been to Jeff 
>Pfhol's page, but I would like some personal experience with somebody I 
>can email with.

I've had a turboflotor in a 50gal. reef for about 9mo. It seems to be very 
efficient and pulls out a very dark smelly liquid.I found that you need a 
seperate pump to push the water into the skimmer.A passive hookup to the 
overflow did not produce a high enough water level in skimmer.Also, you 
need to periodically take apart and clean the needlewheel(very easy) 
Overall I would recommend it.

James

*****************************************************

From [email-masked] Tue Aug 27 09:35:32 1996
From: <[email-masked]>
To: [email-masked]
Date: 27 Aug 96  9:36:20 EDT
Subject: New Super Skimmer ?
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: Text/Plain

Jeff:

I was just sent the following message as a reply to a question I had regarding 
ETS vs DDS skimmers. I just wanted to know if you have heard anything about 
these new EDEPS skimmers ?

Thanks for your time.

Chris

X-News: opal.tufts.edu rec.aquaria.marine.reefs:6099

>I need help because I am confused.  MAV Reef Enterprises distributes the
>DDS (Down Draft Skimmer) and everyone else distributes the ETS
>(Enviromental Tower Scrubber).  Is the DDS just a refined/upgraded ETS.  Or
>are these two entirely different products.  I have heard excellent reviews
>on both these products, but I do not know any history regarding them.  From
>the ones I have seen and heard about, I firmly believe that these are the
>BEST skimmer/s/ one can buy, if cost is no object of course.
>
>Any replies would be greatly appreciated.

The work the best but they are NOT the best.

Both the ETS and DDS have undetachable shaft and they are overpriced - way
overpriced if you consider how easy it is to make one.

Problems related to undetachable shaft:

1.  Easy breakage during shipping.
2.  Non-upgradable for larger tanks. 
3.  Non removable algae growth within the column.

The solution is EDEPS (Enhanced Effect Protein Scrubber) manufacturerd and
designed by Mercado Aquatics.  The shaft can be removed for whatever reasons at
THREE points.  And they are priced half as much as the hugh rip-off ancestors.

You will see one on our upcoming page.

Eddie
Monolith Marine Monsters, Inc - m3

*****************************************8

From: Frank Manno <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Skimmer
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 1996 08:11:19 +1100

Tom wrote:
> 
> I am looking for opinions on which protien skimmer to buy.  I want to get
> either the Turboflotor or the Berlin skimmer.  Could someone throw their
> two(2) cents in and tell me which one they think is better?  I am also
> wondering how much water flow the Berlin skimmer needs.  Thanks in advance.

I can only speak on behalf of the Berlin skimmer since I own one. 

It needs a strong pump. At least an Eheim 1060. I got not complains
about the berlin skimmer. Does the job for me, produces heaps of foam.

I think all venturi skimmers are very pump dependant. 

-Frankie
**********************************************

From: Bonnee Ballinger <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs,rec.aquaria.marine.misc
Subject: Re: Anyone know about Pro Twin I Skimmer?
Date: Tue, 24 Sep 1996 23:24:23 -0700

Praveen 'Ether' Sreenivas wrote:
> 
> .
> Aquatic Warehouse on-line at:
> http://www.thenerve2.com/techwebs/aquatic/awcat1.html#Protein Skimmers
> 
> has a Protein Skimmer called:  224100 Pro Twin I Skimmer for about
> $65.  Has anyone used this or seen it in their local store? Is it
> any good?  Sounds like a good deal (actually it sounds 'too good').
> I'm looking for a skimmer for a 70 gallon / mostly-fish tank
> (I'm gonna have about 70-100 lbs of rock also eventually).  Should
> I get a CPR backpack instead?...
> .
> --
> ----------------------->  Praveen 'Ether' Sreenivas
> ----------------->  Five-year Rave Casualty
> ----------->  'Fight the good fight...'
> .
>   Members of the HUMAN-race please check out these links!
> Americans:  http://www.infinet.com/~leep/ara.html
> Europeans:  http://www.geocities.com/CapitalHill/1320/index.html
> Canadians:  http://www.web.apc.org/~ara/
> .I have used the larger Pro-Twin and was not happy with it at all. In my 
opinion it's as bad as the Skilters. Try using the us aquarium hang-on 
venturi skimmer. It is inexpensive and seems to do the trick. If you can 
afford to, buy the 30" one. The cpr bakpak seems to work well also but I 
prefer the US Aquarium venturi.
                                                 Good luck,
                                                 Steve Ballinger

*******************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Craig Bingman)
Subject: Re: just how does an ETS work?
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:19:18 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>, Steven J. Miller <[email-masked]> wrote:
>I recently got the plans off Jeff`s home page on how to build the doundraft
>skimmer.  I was wondering exactly how the bubbles get formed?  

The jet of water shooting through the bioballs draws air through the 
column along with the water.  The bioballs mix the water and air, 
dispersing the air into small bubbles and keeping it in small bubbles as 
it goes through the column.

So the air injector is the tall column filled with bioballs.

> What makes these the greatest thing since sliced
>bread?  I am planning on building one since they are so great, but am
>curious as to how it actually works.  

The fact that the air and water are mixed so well is probably important.  
The fact that one can maintain a couple of feet of draining foam in 
the foam riser is probably also very important.

>>Also, what size tank is the skimmer
>in the plans rated for?  

I have no idea, nor do I know how well the one in the plans work.

The commercial 800 series skimmers work well.  Some of the larger ones 
also work well.  The smaller ones seem to lose an edge, and it still 
takes a pretty big pump to run them.  

Craig

****************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Jimmy Yeh)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs,rec.aquaria.marine.misc
Subject: Re: Anyone know about Pro Twin I Skimmer?
Date: Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:34:07 GMT

I agree, mine is somewhere in the garage.  If you want another one,
come get it.  I will sell you cheaper only if you buy the first one
from Richard.  

The adjustment is really difficult on this skimmer.  I have mine stand
on a piece of brick and keep check on the water level of the sump
everyday to make sure it works right.  With different water level, the
gunk produced is very inconsistent also.

Find another one.
Jimmy

[email-masked] (Richard Hanschu) wrote:

>Praveen 'Ether' Sreenivas <[email-masked]> wrote:

>>.
>>Aquatic Warehouse on-line at:
>>http://www.thenerve2.com/techwebs/aquatic/awcat1.html#Protein Skimmers
>> 
>>has a Protein Skimmer called:  224100 Pro Twin I Skimmer for about
>>$65.  Has anyone used this or seen it in their local store? Is it
>>any good?  Sounds like a good deal (actually it sounds 'too good').

>I can beat this deal...I will sell you mine for $50! (or less).
>Actually, this isn't the greatest skimmer. Mine would work fine if the
>water level in the sump was at the right level and stayed constant.
>But, I only have a 10 G sump, so the level in the sump changes by
>about 3/4 inch a day. When the level is too low the skimmer doesn't
>produce foam..too high it floods the collection box. When just right
>it actually works fairly well...nice dark gunk in the cup. There are
>no adjustments that can be made to the skimmer. IF you can find this
>level and keep it steady it will work fairly well (for the price). I
>took mine out and bought a Amiracle Hurricane which I am fairly
>pleased with (about $80 + $30 for the pump from Pet Warehouse)

>Richard

*******************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Mark JayR)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Pump for TF200 skimmer
Date: 4 Oct 1996 00:06:03 -0400

Jeff,

I have a TF200 on my 125 gal tank it pulls out a lot of gunk
when I was curing live rock. Now that the tank is over 3 months old
and about fully stocked with reef things all seem to be very happy!
The water and chemistry is right where it should be...and  I have a
Little Giant 2-MD pump on it. Pulls out gunk just fine.

And if you look at the Home page for Top Fathom it recommends
the TF200 for tanks up to 200 gals!!!!!

Take a look......

www.top-fathom.com.

Happy skimming.....

[email-masked]

***************************************************

From: [email-masked] (JEFF PFOHL)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Pump for TF200 skimmer
Date: 7 Oct 1996 03:19:57 GMT

Mark JayR ([email-masked]) wrote:
: Jeff,

Since this was addressed to me.... :)

: I have a TF200 on my 125 gal tank it pulls out a lot of gunk

Indeed this can happen as I have found that TF skimmers are very good
for the $$.

: when I was curing live rock. Now that the tank is over 3 months old
: and about fully stocked with reef things all seem to be very happy!

GREAT!

: The water and chemistry is right where it should be...and  I have a
: Little Giant 2-MD pump on it. Pulls out gunk just fine.

I believe this is one of the recommended pumps by TF.

: And if you look at the Home page for Top Fathom it recommends
: the TF200 for tanks up to 200 gals!!!!!

Yes they do rate them that way. I think they are overly generous. But
I admit to being a big skimmer person. Sure the TF 200 may support a
200 g FO tank (100 g reef) according to TF BUT IME/IMO you should look
at them as being for 1/2 the tank size recommended at the
maximum. Thus the TF 200 is for a 100 g tank, the TF 500 is for a 250
gal tank. Of course smaller tanks would benefit more from the bigger
skimmers. I also feel that a FO probably needs a bigger skimmer than a
Berlin reef given the same size tank but have not tested this
hypothesis. Just a gut feeling.

: Take a look......

: www.top-fathom.com.

Already linked on my homepage as I post quite a bit about TF skimmers
and reefs in general.

--

				JEFF PFOHL
			 	E-MAIL: [email-masked]
				PHONE : (904) 644-1598  work
					(904) 224-0707  home
					(904) 644-9848  fax
				http://nucalf.physics.fsu.edu/pfohl

"I will shoulder more than my share of the task, whatever it may be.
100% and then some!"

********************************************************

From: [email-masked]
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs,rec.aquaria.marine.misc
Subject: Re: U.S. Aquarium Skimmer good?
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 1996 19:59:22 GMT

Praveen 'Ether' Sreenivas <[email-masked]> wrote:

>.
>I've been offered a US Aq.Skimmer (Hang-on venturi model:
>HCC2O, 18"), with Rio pump, only 1 month old, for $50.

>Sounds like a good deal.  Will it be adequate for a 70-
>gallon 'fish-mostly' tank?  I was gonna wait and get
>the CPR backpack, but this sounds great for $50.  Please
>reply before I send my money off.  :)  TIA
>.
>-- 
>----------------------->  Praveen 'Ether' Sreenivas
>----------------->  Five-year Rave Casualty
>----------->  'Fight the good fight...'
>.
>  Members of the HUMAN-race please check out these links!
>Americans:  http://www.infinet.com/~leep/ara.html
>Europeans:  http://www.geocities.com/CapitalHill/1320/index.html
>Canadians:  http://www.web.apc.org/~ara/
>.

I have that exact skimmer, and I paid $99 for it new. In the $100+
price range, I think the BackPak is the better choice, but for $50
bucks I think the US skimmer is a hard deal to pass up. Check out the
posts on Jeff Pfohl's web page:

http://nucalf.physics.fsu.edu/pfohl/Fish/Hardware/skimmers

He's done a great job of compiling a user-satisfaction chart for most
major brands. This might help you with your decition.

Greg Snook
[email-masked]
http://www.mcs.com/~gsnook/

*****************************************************

From: [email-masked] (Matt Anderson)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs,rec.aquaria.marine.misc
Subject: Re: U.S. Aquarium Skimmer good?
Date: 10 Oct 1996 06:41:23 GMT

>.
>I've been offered a US Aq.Skimmer (Hang-on venturi model:
>HCC2O, 18"), with Rio pump, only 1 month old, for $50.
>
>Sounds like a good deal.  Will it be adequate for a 70-
>gallon 'fish-mostly' tank?  I was gonna wait and get
>the CPR backpack, but this sounds great for $50.  Please
>reply before I send my money off.  :)  TIA

I have a CPR BakPak, and i helped a friend set up a tank with the 18" US Aq.  
As far as skimming goes, the US Aq does a better job at pulling out gook. but 
it is not nearly as well constructed  or easy to use. to adjust the BakPak, you 
 simply raise or lower the cup in it's sleeve and to dump it you just lift 
straight up.  for the US aq, you have to turn some leak-prone screw in the 
output tube and to dump it you have to turn it off and screw off the cup.  a 
*much* bigger hassel than the BakPak.  plus it doesn't have a sump compartment 
for biobale, heater, whatever...

if you had a smaller tank, i'd say you couldn't go wrong with either of them, 
but 70 is a bit big for a BakPak. even though they use the same pump and re-ju 
venturi, i think the US Aq is better suited for bigger tanks

-matt anderson

**********************************************************

From: Jason Frey <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Venturi skimmer
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 11:12:25 +0000

John Neuzil wrote:
> 
> Can anyone suggest a good venturi skimmer to go to work on my 29gal. reef.
> 
Hi John,

The two hang-on skimmers I like the best are the CPR Bak-pak and the 
Crystal Clear Cyclone. The cyclone is a great filter and elimates almost all 
air bubbles returing to the tank. It has a really cool tornado action in the 
column. It's less expensive too.

The CPR bak-bak is very good but it's more money. It does however have 
the benifit of the bio-bale section which you can remove if you want to 
berlin and you can put your heater in the chamber. They now have a 
pre-skimmer and a bubble catcher add-ons for the model too.
-- 
jason
[email-masked]
http://www.premiumaquatics.com
------------------------------
Try our new message board at
http://www.premiumaquatics.com/wwwboard/wwwboard.html

***********************************************

From: [email-masked] (Mike Purcell)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: RedSea skimmers bad?
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 1996 21:06:54 GMT

I've got a Red Sea Berlin on my 55gal, and I like it a lot.  It took a
little adjustment to get it tuned properly, but now it works great.
It consistently produces the darkest, smelliest goop I care to deal
with.  Which, I assume, is the point of a skimmer: to get that crud
out of the tank!  I suppose for a bigger tank you might need something
even better, but it suits my purposes just fine.

Mike Purcell
Tampa, FL

*********************************************8

From: [email-masked] (Richard R. Hardy)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: RedSea skimmers bad?
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 1996 09:33:56 -0400

In article <[email-masked]>, Nathan Cope
<[email-masked]> wrote:

>I've seen quite a few postings from Americans saying that the RedSea 
>Berlin skimmer is a load of garbage. This is the best skimmer that we can 
>get in Australia and for me it seems to work really well. I drive it with 
>an Eheim 1060 pump (2000L(530g)/hr).
>
>Are there specific problems with it or is there something available in 
>the US that is just better?

One problem with these skimmers is that people drive them with pumps that
are too small (maybe at the recommendation of Red Sea or their dealer), get
little foam and then say the skimmer is trash.  For a 55g tank and with a
large enough pump, it does fine for a skimmer that costs $180.  Of course,
if you're willing to spend lots more, you can do better.  A plus for me is
that it's short and so fits under my tank (in the cabinet).  And after some
plumbing mods it's pretty quiet, too.
___________________________________________________________
Richard R. Hardy          Member, Inst. for Cancer Research           
Fox Chase Cancer Center   Tel:    (215) 728-2463
7701 Burholme Ave.        FAX:    (215) 728-2412
Philadelphia, PA 19111    E-MAIL: [email-masked]

************************************************8

From: [email-masked] (Craig Bingman)
Subject: Re: ETS Protein Skimmers
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 1996 01:19:59 GMT

In article <[email-masked]>,  <[email-masked]> wrote:
>Have read much about Berlin skimmers and seem to think they are good. 
>But I'm interested in the ETS skimmer & have not seen any pros or cons
>on the unit.  I understand it produces a dry foam, unlike the Berlin? 
>Also read it needs a rather big pump to work it properly. Need thoughts
>& opinions if possible.

The 800 series ETS is probably one of the best foam fractionators ever made.

I have no idea of how the current models perform, when I was at MACNA, it 
seemed that the ones on display had mutated substantially, and I haven't 
heard about the vendor (or any other vendor, for that matter) doing the 
sorts of critical skimmer testing that are really necessary to evaluate 
the units.  Maybe Gary has a lab that does DOP, DON, TOC testing, maybe not.

Anyway.  Yes, they are reasonably good skimmers, the ones with tall 
bioball columns tend to work better than ones with shorter columns.  They 
are not huge for a skimmer in their class, but they are not small 
either.  They are moderately ugly, too.  ;)  They require a big pump, and 
if you have to ask how much electricity it is going to take....  figure 
on close to 2 amps 24 hours a day to run an 800 series skimmer.  So you 
need not only a big, but also an efficient pump.  They also make noise, 
and they are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination.  You may need 
to do some work on your sump to use them as effectively as possible, and 
minimize the number of returned bubbles to the display tank.

They may work too well, in many cases, soft corals have failed to thrive 
in ETS tanks, whereas they did quite well when moved to tanks with lesser 
skimmers.

All that said, I like my ETS very much, and I honestly wouldn't think of 
running an SPS coral tank without one.

Craig

*****************************************************

From: Marty Boeckman <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: ETS Protein Skimmers
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 1996 08:16:01 -0500

I own both an ETS and a RSB. I used to run the RSB on my 180. I have
since moved it to my 30 gallon quarantine tank. The ETS now runs on my
180. The ETS collects alot more effluent as well as the the fact that
the effluent is much darker and stinkier. Just from observing the
differences in the two, the ETS is hands down better - as in its not
even a close comparison.

Marty

Matthew J. Hellman wrote:
> 
> [email-masked] (Thomas M. Sasala) wrote:
> 
> >       The ETS is a monster skimmer.  It can not compare to a Berlin (from
> >what I have read).
> 
> Thomas, it what respects can't the ETS compare?  From what Ive read,
> the ETS skimmers are about the most efficient  available.  I wish I
> had one, but I would like to stay married ; )
> Matt

*****************************************************

From: [email-masked] (JackTrax)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Tunze 230- GREAT!
Date: 25 Oct 1996 20:06:03 -0400

Thought you'd like to know...I got a Tunz 230 skimmer for my 120 reef.  It
came from AquaDirect for $480.  When it arrived I thought they sent the
wrong model.  It's so small it can sit in a shoebox and is only about 10"
high.  I rechecked the model number and sure enough, it was a
230..recommended for tanks up to 300 gallons.  Anyway, it fit right into
my sump and generates foam by spinning the water in a cyclotron type track
while injecting air.  It looks like something from Star Trek.  It's also
whisper quiet.
It comes complete...no pump needed.  When I turned it on, it started
generating foam within a few minutes, and copius skimmate within a day.  A
few days later, after it "cured", it was generating so much foam I had to
turn the air bleed way down  The quality of the skimmate is excellent.  I
had a slight phosphate problem and within 3 days my phosphate dropped from
0.7ppm to undetectable. Due to the design, the Tunze does not fracture
plankton so the skimmate color is straw yellow rather than dark green, and
is not foul smelling like other venturi skimmers. I expected good
perfomance but was suprised as to how good this thing is, especially
considering it's size.  And best of all, you don't need a huge tube
running to your ceiling.  It's only been running for about a week, so I
expect to see tangible results in my coral and corraline growth in the
near future.
A little expensive but IMHO, worth it.

*****************************************************

From [email-masked] Sat Nov  2 14:36:57 1996
From: [email-masked]
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 96 14:23:33 PDT
Subject: Re: State of the reef
To: [email-masked]

A upgrade and thanks for the help message:

Since I upgraded my 55 to 75 (48x13x20 to 48x18x20) there is much more
room to create the rock structure.  I have also upgraded from a TF110A
and RIO 2500, to the TF300A, and you recommended the LIL GIA 3MDQ-SC.

I used the 3MDQ-SC and found it a bit noisy, so I went with a 4MDQ-SC.
What a difference from the 110A to the 300A! You were right, I do not
believe the 300 is overskimming my 75.  In fact I believe your statements
to me indicating you "can't really overskim" are accurate.  When there is 
nothing to skim, it don't skim...   pretty simple. In addition, the higher 
pressure (10.1psi at 840 gph) with dual venturi yeilds much finer bubbles
and contact time.

Thanks, it was the best $300 I spent so far.  Oh yes... I also upgraded from
a Berlin to a Berlin/Jeubert/NNR/plenum based system.  It is kind of based
1/2 on Bob Goemans writings, and Richard Greenfield, (Seachem bio-chemist) 
statements on their aragonite.  At first, I was still using the 110A.
I had a break out of CRyno. with the inert Aragonite as Bob Goemans predicted.
Well, shortly after upgrading to the TF300 and 4MDQ-SC, the Cryno went away. 
Skimming really does an excellent job at keeping the cryno away.  As far as
over skimming... not possible.  At some point, skimming removes some of the
trace elements.  We replace them...  If you over skim, it does not remove
trace elements which weer already exist.  We don't have -4mg strontium!
I don't know where people get this idea about over skimming...

As always, I continue to follow your undying efforts to keep your
archives up to date.  I appreciate the input you have given me
and feel the best I can do to give some payback is let you know how
your advice has greatly helped me.
.
(BTW... I won't mention how many people (including Tony and Eric at TF)
that thought your recommendation of a TF300 was overkill for the 75).
I have seen the results, and the skimmer works great on the 75!  It is
perfect...  I keep the levels low enough that the foam does come out
nice and brown and nice and dry...

Thanks again Jeff!

Mark

***********************************************

From [email-masked] Sat Nov  2 19:44:05 1996
Date: Sat,  2 Nov 96 19:38:33 PST
From: "Mark J. DeFilippis" <[email-masked]>
Subject: Re: State of the reef
To: [email-masked], JEFF PFOHL <[email-masked]>

>Glad you are happy with your purchase. Would you mind if I put your TF
>comments in my archive?
>
>-- 

No problem.  I am glad I stuck with TF.  In fact, $ was never an issue.
I kind of looked at lots of pictures and noticed the huge ones in most
of the books resembled the TF design, and had huge pumps.  My local
dealer only dealt in TF and was using them.  Their tanks looked good to
me... I figured if the design can do an aquarium.....

Thanks again

----------------------------
Mark J. DeFilippis
E-mail: [email-masked]
"We shall implement no network design before it is obsolete!"

****************************************

From pfohl Sun Nov  3 16:06:18 1996
Date: Sun, 3 Nov 1996 16:06:15 -0500
From: JEFF PFOHL <pfohl>
To: [email-masked]
In-Reply-To: <[email-masked]> (message from Ric Green on Sun,
	03 Nov 1996 11:00:22 -0500)
Subject: Re: question???
Cc: pfohl

I personally have a Top Fathom and believe they are one of the best
deals for the $$. If you are going for a hard core SPS tank then
consider the ETS as it is possibly THE BEST skimmer EVER. It is very
power hungry but also gets the job done head and shoulders above the
rest. So good in fact that it MAY actually starve soft corals by
removing DOCs below the threshhold soft corals need. If I was running
a soft coral tank I'd get the Top Fathom as it is more than adequate
and less power hungry. I have the TF 400 on my 75 gal so would
recommend the TF 500 for a 100 g. (or even a bigger TF if your
finances can handle it. They carry the TF 8, TF 10 and perhaps a TF 12
which they classify as "commerical size skimmers") The TF 500 should
suffice unless you are talking a LOT of fish which you should not be
for a reef tank. For an SPS tank I'd definitely go for the ETS. A
friend of mine just took a TF 500 off his 100 g and hooked up an ETS
on his 800+100 g combined system and says it is kicking some serious
butt. LOTS of comments are in my archive in case you have not been
there recently Fish/Hardware/skimmers Fish/Hardware/skimmeruse

You will also need to match a pump to the skimmer. I have an LG 4
MDQ-Sc on my TF 400 and am happy with it. The ETS needs a bigger
pump. Fish/Hardware/pumps should give you some ideas as well as the
things in Fish/Hardware/skimmeruse. Let me know if I can help more.

-- 

				JEFF PFOHL
			 	E-MAIL: [email-masked]
				PHONE : (904) 644-1598  work
					(904) 224-0707  home
					(904) 644-9848  fax
				http://nucalf.physics.fsu.edu/pfohl

"I will shoulder more than my share of the task, whatever it may be.
100% and then some!"

*******************************************

From [email-masked] Thu Nov 14 12:04:55 1996
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 17:03:00 GMT
To: [email-masked]
From: Ricardo Miozzo <[email-masked]>
Subject: skimmer

Awright,
Just read the 69 pages until today about the skimmer comparison program
you're running, and NOBODY told one single word about the Tunze 240 !
Well, I'll do my part:
My tank presently is home for 12 fish, and 83 corals. Mostly hard, being 32
sps (acroporas, montiporas, porites, among others), and 8 Tridacnas.
There's also the "cleaning staff", composed of around 90 hermits (Blue
legged and P. cardenati), snails (turbo spp), brittle and sepent stars.
The tank holds 170 g, uses carbon only when I think it is needed, and relyes
sollely on the 240. Well, it's quite a workhorse. Since day 1 of
installation, foam is consistent and dark, and I measure 1 to 1 1/2 litres
of "ugly coca-cola", as a little guy that saw the skimmate told me once. The
"throttle" it has to regulate the pump's speed helps a lot. Tank in general
is in great shape, corals grow like crazy.
Hope that my info has been of something usable.

*************************************************************

From: Sam P <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:13:09 -0500

I will be upgrading my protein skimmer this christmas. 
I am still unsure of which one to get. I've read all the FAQ's and
posted a few times to get recommendations, but it is still so difficult
to choose with so many conflcting opinions.
I was almost totally set on getting a Top Fathom 110 with a Rio2500HP.
But I'm not sure now how this will perform.
the reef is a 55 gal reef, and I would like to spend less than $200 for
skimmer + pump.
Thanks in advance.
-- 
-Sam Ponjican
_________________________________________
"640K Ought to be enough for anybody."
			-Bill Gates, 1981
_________________________________________
http://mars.superlink.net/sdponj

**********************************************

From: Brian Broughten <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 1996 23:39:26 -0600

Sam P wrote:
> 
> I will be upgrading my protein skimmer this christmas.
> I am still unsure of which one to get. I've read all the FAQ's and
> posted a few times to get recommendations, but it is still so difficult
> to choose with so many conflcting opinions.
> I was almost totally set on getting a Top Fathom 110 with a Rio2500HP.
> But I'm not sure now how this will perform.
> the reef is a 55 gal reef, and I would like to spend less than $200 for
> skimmer + pump.
> Thanks in advance.
> --
> -Sam Ponjican
> _________________________________________
> "640K Ought to be enough for anybody."
>                         -Bill Gates, 1981
> _________________________________________
> http://mars.superlink.net/sdponj

A tough choice at best. I personally would not reccommend a top fathom.
Admittedly I have not tested this skimmer although the feedback I have
generally heard from customers who have made the plunge is that
ultimately they wish they had bought something else. So much of the
decision depends on the type of tank your hoping to keep. If you are
going to utilize live rock as the bio I would get a straight protein
skimmer like my favorite under $200 skimmer which would be any of US
Aquarium models - venturi or countercurrent. If you want some bio added
as in a fish only tank I would lean toward the CPR bacpac. Ive tested
many different brands in my store and feel that the US Aqua line is the
most efficient for the $ You probably have a sump if you were thinking
top fathom venturi which mean you could also go with an Emperor Venturi
Mdl 2 that sells for about $110-130 complete. This is an interesting
product as it features a "homemade" venturi you would have to see to
believe. It works quite well for what it is and is stricly a sump style
skimmer. Just try to keep an open mind :-) just because it is not a true
Mazzi venturi does not mean it wont work well :-) I have a $300 (w/o
pump)custom acrylic venturi that runs off a true "Mazzi" venturi 
that cant hold a candle to a $130 Emperor w/a "funky homemade" venturi
so go figure! Good luck.

********************************************

From: [email-masked] (Bob Odenweller)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 19:02:15 GMT

First I went with a budget skimmer, then a DIY, finally I went with
the Turboflotor 1000.  It's great!  Just set it and forget it.  The
foam is very dry and there is no venturi to clean and no air stone to
replace.  I don't know why somebody didn't think of this design
sooner.  It's a little pricey at $220 but well worth it.  When I
bought mine they were hard to find but they may be more available by
know.

fwiw,
Bob Odenweller

****************************************8

From: Robert Macare <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 1996 12:07:38 -0800

Bob Odenweller wrote:
> 
> First I went with a budget skimmer, then a DIY, finally I went with
> the Turboflotor 1000.  It's great!  Just set it and forget it.  The
> foam is very dry and there is no venturi to clean and no air stone to
> replace.  I don't know why somebody didn't think of this design
> sooner.  It's a little pricey at $220 but well worth it.  When I
> bought mine they were hard to find but they may be more available by
> know.
> 
> fwiw,
> Bob Odenweller
Bob,

The concept used in the Turboflotor has been around in Europe for a
while. It just took time to make it to the USA.
In about a week we will be receiving proteinskimmers which use a similar
concept but better implemented---we have allready tested these skimmers
and as good as the Turboflotor is, they makes the Turboflotor look
anemic.
I should add that these skimmers are meant to be used with large reefs
due to their efficiency and cost. They fit right into a sump and use a
very efficient, low wattage pump.

We will primarily be recommending the Turboflotor for up to 100 gallon
reefs while the new skimmers will take care of the larger reefs.

Robbert

*********************************************

From: Frank Manno <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:13:26 +1100

> the reef is a 55 gal reef, and I would like to spend less than $200 for
> skimmer + pump.

Shopping for skimmers is a complete pain in the arse, I know. 

Regardless of what anyone alse says, I can assure you that the 
Red Sea Berlin with an Eheim 1060 pump will perform more than
optimal on your 55 gal tank. 

I have a 200gal reef tank with the above skimmer and I feel that the 
skimmer is struggling a little. Therefore, I've come to the conclusion
that the red sea skimmer would perform at its best in a 100 gal or so
tank. 

You have a 55gal tank, so I'm convinced that the red sea will totally 
BLITZ it. 

Just buy it. It comes apart easily so therefore is easy to clean. On a
55 gal you will not go wrong. 

-Frankie

*******************************************

From: Peter Hoeve <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:27:24 -0500

Robert Macare wrote:
> 
> Bob Odenweller wrote:
> >
> > First I went with a budget skimmer, then a DIY, finally I went with
> > the Turboflotor 1000.  It's great!  Just set it and forget it.  The
> > foam is very dry and there is no venturi to clean and no air stone to
> > replace.  I don't know why somebody didn't think of this design
> > sooner.  It's a little pricey at $220 but well worth it.  When I
> > bought mine they were hard to find but they may be more available by
> > know.
> >
> > fwiw,
> > Bob Odenweller
> Bob,
> 
> The concept used in the Turboflotor has been around in Europe for a
> while. It just took time to make it to the USA.
> In about a week we will be receiving proteinskimmers which use a similar
> concept but better implemented---we have allready tested these skimmers
> and as good as the Turboflotor is, they makes the Turboflotor look
> anemic.
> I should add that these skimmers are meant to be used with large reefs
> due to their efficiency and cost. They fit right into a sump and use a
> very efficient, low wattage pump.
> 
> We will primarily be recommending the Turboflotor for up to 100 gallon
> reefs while the new skimmers will take care of the larger reefs.
> 
> Robbert

I have a 1000. Is it too small for my 180 ???  The store told me it went to
250.

Thanks

Peter

*****************************************

From: Lynn Foster <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 08:31:42 -0700

Bob Odenweller wrote:
> 
> First I went with a budget skimmer, then a DIY, finally I went with
> the Turboflotor 1000.  It's great!  Just set it and forget it.  The

I agree. I've had a Turboflotor 1000 on a 55 for about 6 months. It has
worked very well for me with very little fuss.
Lynn

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From: Robert Macare <[email-masked]>
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 1996 09:20:16 -0800

Peter Hoeve wrote:
> 
> Robert Macare wrote:
> >
> > Bob Odenweller wrote:
> > >
> > > First I went with a budget skimmer, then a DIY, finally I went with
> > > the Turboflotor 1000.  It's great!  Just set it and forget it.  The
> > > foam is very dry and there is no venturi to clean and no air stone to
> > > replace.  I don't know why somebody didn't think of this design
> > > sooner.  It's a little pricey at $220 but well worth it.  When I
> > > bought mine they were hard to find but they may be more available by
> > > know.
> > >
> > > fwiw,
> > > Bob Odenweller
> > Bob,
> >
> > The concept used in the Turboflotor has been around in Europe for a
> > while. It just took time to make it to the USA.
> > In about a week we will be receiving proteinskimmers which use a similar
> > concept but better implemented---we have allready tested these skimmers
> > and as good as the Turboflotor is, they makes the Turboflotor look
> > anemic.
> > I should add that these skimmers are meant to be used with large reefs
> > due to their efficiency and cost. They fit right into a sump and use a
> > very efficient, low wattage pump.
> >
> > We will primarily be recommending the Turboflotor for up to 100 gallon
> > reefs while the new skimmers will take care of the larger reefs.
> >
> > Robbert
> 
> I have a 1000. Is it too small for my 180 ???  The store told me it went to
> 250.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Peter

Peter,

The Turboflotor 1000 will probably "do" a 1000 gallon tank, but what
will your water quality be ??
This is the question you should be answering in time about your own reef
w.r.t the job the Turboflotor is doing for you.
It may very well be that in your case it will suffice---from our
experience with many different protein skimmers running on many
different tanks, we have learned to look at results first and then
assign a value (gallon size) to that particular skimmer. Let it suffice
to say that based on our experiences, I would not recommend this skimmer
for well stocked reef tanks over 100 gallons-----this is our personal
stance, others may not agree which is O.K.

Let all of us know how your reef does over time---it will be valuable
information for all of us.

Good Luck,
Robbert

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From: [email-masked] (Thomas Debenedictis)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: 15 Nov 1996 00:28:44 GMT

> I was almost totally set on getting a Top Fathom 110 with a Rio2500HP.
> But I'm not sure now how this will perform.
> the reef is a 55 gal reef, 
I also have a 55 and I have a TF 300 w/ a LG 4MDQ-SC .It works great my 
ORP right now is 512mV . I used to have The Beast and the highest it was ,
was380mV. Plus I had alot of brown algae growth. Now I have almost none.
As a matter of a fact I only have to clean the glass every 2 weeks where 
as before I was cleaning it every other day. I have never used a 
Turboflotor and as it is right now I don't think I will because I am 
happy with what I have. And I can expand with out having to upgrade my 
skimmer. My whole set up was $280. I know this is more then you want to 
spend but do your self a favor donot skimp here. No pain no gain!
Hope this helps

Tom

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From: [email-masked] (Ron Feigen)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 01:10:48 GMT

Rick,

I think Robert has a "mouse n his pocket" :-).

If you want a premium skimmer get an ETS.  Not much debating 
on that point.  If you want a great skimmer that doesn't cost around
$1000 then you can discuss the merits of a Red Sea , Turbo Floater,
Top Fathom, Omni Life, ect........

"Richard Berg" <[email-masked]> wrote:

><snip>
>> In about a week we will be receiving proteinskimmers which use a similar
>> concept but better implemented---we have allready tested these skimmers
>> and as good as the Turboflotor is, they makes the Turboflotor look
>> anemic.
>> I should add that these skimmers are meant to be used with large reefs
>> due to their efficiency and cost. They fit right into a sump and use a
>> very efficient, low wattage pump.
>> 
>> We will primarily be recommending the Turboflotor for up to 100 gallon
>> reefs while the new skimmers will take care of the larger reefs.
>> 
>> Robbert
>> 
>
>Robert, can you please tell us who "we" is referring to?  I would like to
>know where to look for additional information on this new skimmer you will
>be receiving.
>
>Thanks, Rick Berg
>[email-masked]

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From: [email-masked] (Thomas M. Sasala)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 06:53:03 -0500

In article <[email-masked]>, [email-masked] wrote:

> I will be upgrading my protein skimmer this christmas. 
> I am still unsure of which one to get. I've read all the FAQ's and
> posted a few times to get recommendations, but it is still so difficult
> to choose with so many conflcting opinions.
> I was almost totally set on getting a Top Fathom 110 with a Rio2500HP.
> But I'm not sure now how this will perform.
> the reef is a 55 gal reef, and I would like to spend less than $200 for
> skimmer + pump.
> Thanks in advance.

   If your reef is even lightly stocked, your going to need a better skimmer
than that.  At least a TF200, but a TF300 would be better.  Couple that with
a LG or Iwaki pump and you looking at much more than you want to spend.
The 110 will work, don't get me wrong, but the larger models will work 
better.

                     -Tom
-- 
The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth.
                -- Bohr

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From: [email-masked] (Michael Wolfe)
Newsgroups: rec.aquaria.marine.reefs
Subject: Re: Best Protein Skimmer?
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 1996 00:36:39 GMT

Alot of good advice so far, but speaking as a beginner... I have had
really great results with the CPR BakPak.  I am sumpless so had
limited options on skimmers.  The BakPak has been great for me.  Just
hang it on the tank plug it in and make sure to empty that scum cup
cause it will be filling up.

My cyano problem is history and my hair algea is on the retreat.  The
only thing I have to clean of the glass is the coraline (SP) algae
that is growing everywhere.  For a small tank... like my 55... I
thinkthe BakPak is one of the better, simplier solutions.  Oh, and I
am running it without the bio-bale media... just live rock for
bio-filtration.

MWolfe

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